To ask how many genuine sociopaths/psychopaths you've actually met?

[WillGymForPizza]

I strongly suspect that I'm working with someone who is possibly a sociopath. Obviously I'm not a psychiatrist so can't properly diagnose, but Ive met some dodgy and unlikable people in my time and this person takes it to a whole level. I genuinely believe her to be evil. She doesn't appear to have a moral compass and seems to take great pleasure in publicly humiliating her staff. They are all utterly terrified of her.

Most disturbingly of all I work in a Primary School and this person is this person is the headteacher....

How common is this kind of thing? Ive never come across anyone like this before.

My ex fiancé. He wa SCO grilling and abusive (not violent) cur me off from all my friends etc. Also an alcoholic. I was young and naive (20) finally saw the light and binned him, at which pint he went properly psycho and had to get police/ his family invoked to reign him in (think 2 dozen red roses every day, then when still rejected boxes with 2 dozen dead red roses every day, cut up!
Over 100 calls and messages a day!
No word from him for 18 years now. I expect to See whim on the news every day...

*controlling not SCO grilling obvs

I worked with one many years ago, without doubt the most vindictive person ever He rose to power due to his ruthless nature.

I then married a malignant narcissist who has zero conscious,no remorse and habitually lies and due to his corporate culture became sociopathic.
Robert Hare believes % is at least 4 in 100 but that is seen as a conservative estimate given most not diagnosed.

Hare talks of going to see diagnosed psychopaths in prison and being charmed by them and forgetting they are psychopaths. It is this ability to charm and conceal who they are which is why they reek havoc on society. The estimate cost for crime, divorces etc would run into billions.

Neuroscience is determining that brain structures are different in these individuals. I think a brain scan should be essential before dating!

albertcamus. You may have met such an extreme example it has made you think every other has to be measured by it. But this was a child, so could not be a psychopath because we do not diagnose psychopathy in children. It is an adult only diagnosis.

Narcissists and psychopaths seem to have an amazing ability to scan people and seek out their perfect prey or person to whom to get close. The people they choose are high on empathy.

You may be very lucky in that any socio/psychopathically inclined people did not actually touch you closely. There may have been many charming people around you doing very immoral and unpleasant things without feeling at all guilty about it but you just didn't know.

In one of "The Adams Family" films, the family had a fancy-dress party. Everyone arrived in varying degrees of extremely crazy dress. Then Wednesday arrived. Wearing her every-day skirt, blouse and cardigan, with her hair in just the usual plaits. No fancy dress. Aunt somebody said,
"Why, Wednesday, you haven't come in fancy dress." Wednesday replied in her unemotional level tone:
"I am a Psychopath. They look like normal people."

I think I’ve known one, he must’ve been as he was almost demonic.
He:
Thought nothing of beating up/causing great harm (including attempting to blind) to people-elderly, learning disabled, children.
-Laughed when torturing animals, used to like swinging cats by their tails and letting go etc.
-Felt entitled to anything he wanted, food, sex,money. Would just rob and beat people for it without a care in the world.
-raped men and teenage boys.
-overdosed drug addicts intentionally for fun.
-pimped women.

Awful person, he’s been locked up but keeps getting released. Last time I saw him he was with a woman and small child. I felt sick.

Ellyess, I know, I was joking - pretty badly I guess. Thanks for confirming I don't have any sociopathic tendencies though! .

South of Watford?

Yes, probably myself. I dug too deeply into conspiracy theories and most days I am just a blubbering wreck now - fearing another holocaust.

I'm certain my sister is.

Ellyess You're deliberately missing my point, probably intentionally because your posts on this thread seem otherwise intelligent. Yes of course it's necessary to educate ourselves/children, but giving teens lessons on how to spot psychopaths seems a little hysterical. Especially, as was my point, that most people are hopeless armchair psychologists.

I know one in the West Midlands as well... I suspect some of us are talking about the same horrid woman who takes pleasure in destroying any staff with the gall to have an opinion different than hers... Very high staff turnover. Very highly rated school.

It's not 1/25 but it's not especially rare either. Estimates were always 1/100 now it's thought more like 2/100.

If you know 100 people, statistically it's possible two of them are pathological.

I would say that my mother was a narcissist, she continually gaslighted and triangulated the whole family. Hence I have had no contact with her for over 25 years.

I've only met two, and both worked in schools, in senior management roles...! Both were women, aged 50-60.

I'm very empathic, and can "read" people very, very easily. Both these people gave me sociopath vibes within 10 minutes of sitting and talking with them. They are the only people I've ever met, who I've had these vibes from, and in the time I subsequently knew them (between a year, and three), they only confirmed my suspicious time and time again.

Honestly, I believe that unless you KNOW you've met a sociopath, you haven't met one.

"When I was police staff I worked for this utterly vile female inspector. The force chaplain told me that she was completely convinced that this woman was a psychopath, having dealt with her in several situations over the years. I took great delight in dobbing her into the Assistant Chief Constable over her bullying of a colleague. She never knew who had caused her mask of perfection to be ripped off as the ACC laid into her after investigation."

I'm wondering if this is the same woman I know... She left the police and went into teaching I think, and is probably now retired (must be mid-60s). She was quite the god-botherer, so I wouldn't be surprised if the force chaplain knew her well...

ScrambledSmegs. Thanks! I did think it was a joke but in my trade I've heard so many people putting themselves down, I din't know for sure!! I should have known your humour from your name!

When I began teaching I met a boy who gave me the worst kind of chills I've ever felt. I'm quite stoic and calm, very unflappable and never get spooked by anything. But this boy worried the life out of me every day I spent with him.

I have a horrid but very definite conviction that in years to come his name will be known nationally for the awful things he'll go on to do.

The term "evil" may be a tad strong,WillGym, and I wonder if she's just an Uber egomaniac who deliberately inflates her sense of self-importance at the expense of everybody elses self-esteem.

Maybe she's just a pompous Queen Bee bully. One day she'll meet a bigger bully than her......

Honestly, I believe that unless you KNOW you've met a sociopath, you haven't met one.

I don't tend to agree with this; many sociopaths are terribly adapt at wearing different masks for different situations so someone that one person believes is a pillar of society type will have destroyed another person and both people's versions will be true to them. I think you only know when you've seen the mask removed - and then you absolutely know.

RochelleGoyle

No I am not missing your point at all. To see these psychopathic behaviours and recognise them is a valuable skill.

I take issue with your insulting and pejorative "armchair psychologist" judgement, which you, from your supercilious heights, likes to put people here down as being. It is so judgemental and condescending! You speak as if you are so much more important than all the rest of us commenting here.

When someone wonders if a person has some kind of disorder, or is displaying very unpleasant behaviours that makes them fear the person may have a dangerous condition, I do not understand why you feel you can write them off as stupid, using scornful and contemptuous terminology.

I am a retired Psychologist and worked in two famous Hospitals where I was trained to notice behaviours which indicate different diagnostic criteria and pathology. But I never put down a single person who was not a qualified practitioner for wondering if a person they knew might have a disorder! I would not dream of using a term like "armchair psychologist". I find it abhorrent. It is so lacking in respect for intelligent and thoughtful people and it discounts their life-experience. I suppose if a person has a very severe headache and cannot bend their chin down to their chest, and says "Have I got meningitis?" you say "Stop making armchair diagnoses!" and ignore them for being stupid! People do know about psychopathy and the similar conditions. They naturally wonder if they meet someone who displays behaviour which is particularly callous, shows no remorse, and does dreadfully cruel things while smiling.

I think you believe you are above the people here and like to hurt people by being scornful and contemptuous. Maybe you had better look at your other traits. You certainly don't come on to Mumsnet to help people do you? I get the impression you are here to show how superior you are and to disparage all those people "beneath" you.

FudgeBrownie2019. Exactly! Hence the wonderful seminal book about psychopathy ‎published in 1941, "The Mask of Sanity". by ‎Hervey M. Cleckley

Then the other brilliant book "In Sheep's Clothing" by Dr. George Simon, which is about how manipulators, abusers, bullies, and otherwise overly-aggressive people act. They don't do it because of some underlying fear, insecurity, or past abuse--but because this type of unacceptable behavior allows them to get what they want.

In other words, we could be dealing with a manipulative psycho/sociopathic person and have no idea, especially if they are using their charm to get around us. They are good at this. But the sooner we pick up the warning signs (red flags, nagging doubts, feeling something isn't right) the sooner we are on the alert and immediately our fears are confirmed - we run!

The extent to which a psych/sociopathic person does or gets caught out doing egregiously cruel things varies. We do not have to have evidence that they perform these evil things to suspect that they are in this category of evil people.

As I keep saying, we only need to be good at observing the abuses they do and making sure we do not get caught by them. The actual label we might give the person is not important. The reason it is handy to have these labels is so that we can look things up and learn more. The more we learn the more likely it is that such people will be unable to hurt us.

zingally. They love uniforms!
As I said, it is always quoted that the professions they preferentially inhabit are: CEO. Lawyer. Media(TV/Radio). Salesperson. Surgeon. Journalist. Police Officer. Clergy Person.
I don't know why the list does not include The Services - Army etc, particularly the Officers.
Obviously you'll meet them in other walks of life too - I knew two who met the diagnostic criteria (including the "over time" criteria and showing criminal tendencies in childhood) who were Head Teachers in Public Schools. One was in a very famous Public School! His type of pathology was pretty much kept under wraps and only emerged every so often, especially when he particularly wanted something or felt he was not getting his own way. However he was a predator. The other was cruel beyond belief and we could not understand why he was not in prison. The trouble is, it's the slightly less intelligent people on the whole (not entirely) who end up in Prison. The very cunning clever ones are so slippery... They threaten people and blackmail them. Also they have lots of money, a lot of them, and disappear abroad. We were hoping the HM from the well-known school would be revealed. But we think his victims were either paid off or blackmailed.

ethelfleda. Don't feel you have to spot "one of these people''. Just know what your standards are and how you expect to be treated. When someone violates your boundaries, say by lying to you, then you know they aren't your close friend.
It's all about behaviours. On a worse level it's about abuse. Once someone abuses you they should be off your friendship list. If they are in your family and you can't avoid them, have a look on the internet for how to handle them. Most of these people are manipulative. Look up how to deal with manipulative people.

So don't worry about whether you can say if someone is a sociopath/psychopath or any other title, just be good at knowing your boundaries about how you expect people to behave around you.
You could say something like; a friend does not lie to me, bully me, put me down, not support me when I'm low, not be happy for me when something good happens for me, does not steal from me, does not talk about me behind my back, does not keep letting me down, etc.
If someone makes you feel doubtful about them, but you aren't sure why, try making a note about what happens between you. Do they talk about themselves all the time? for example.

There are lots of self help websites and videos on YouTube. You may have to search a bit to find the good ones but they do exist.
I use the diagnostic labels like narcissist or psychopath (actually not used in the clinic much but used elsewhere), to look up and clarify the types of behaviour which is abusive. Just so I have a clear idea because some abusers are so manipulative when they are right in front of you, it can be confusing.

@cats what was the book?

I JUST heard the song Neighbourhood by Space on the radio which contains the line 'he's a local vicar and a serial killer' & I thought of this thread