Aibu to be hopeful about the people’s vote?

[shitholiday2018]

And cross everything I have that anyone vaguely interested in remaining signs it? Don’t know how accurate this is but vince cable tweeted from the march earlier and said 60 per cent now in favour of remaining. No idea of the accuracy of those stats (or any, stats were wrong in June 2016) but surely remaining is better than this shit storm?

* "out there will be civil disorder in the streets and I will be involved in that in any way that I can*"

My Dad keeps saying this. As he's in his seventies and can barely make it to the end of his garden path, I am not concerned.

I'm embarrassed for you.

Maybe I'm on my own here but I can't help feeling very sorry for Theresa May. She took this on, every other twat walked away having created the means for a terrible mess. That's hardly fair.

Every time I hear Theresa May referred to in RL, people refer to her dancing. As if that is even relevant.

I think that all that Brexit has shown is that putting any sort of vote to the UK public is fraught with danger and what I find ridiculous is that if a referendum isn't legally binding (and therefore the bus-posters cannot be prosecuted) then even the notion of a it should have been dismissed.

This should be happening sooner rather than later and we shouldn’t even think about leaving until it has.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/23/calls-grow-for-public-inquiry-into-brexit

Figment let's hope so, that inquiry is definitely needed.

If May really wants to pass her WA, she needs to put a Revoke vs. current WA to Parliament. No other options. Force the hand of all her opponents.

Parliament strongly voted against No Deal so she can very legitimately keep that off the options list. Everyone hates the idea of extensions for long period, may as well revoke and consider how to successfully invoke next time.

ps: successful prosecutions have followed the Drive Slow protests on motorways.

I think what has been really interesting recently is the clear demonstration that Leave just cannot get its supporters out onto the streets whereas Remain can. For years now the leaders of the Leave campaign have been threatening civil unrest and have used this to intimidate politicians, judges and Remainers in general. This has led to the Prime Minister constantly bowing to both the ERG and various tabloid newspapers who have pushed this view instead of seeking a consensus. It has meant more and more polarisation, with No Deal suddenly being pushed as what everyone wanted when they voted to leave the EU, when that is in no way true. They really thought they could bully the country into No Deal by the back door.

I'm sure there would be demonstrations if Article 50 was revoked but I now very much doubt there would be terrible riots or major civil unrest, although I'm sure a lot of people on here will come on and assure me they will be out at the barricades if Brexit didn't go ahead. Every time that hateful fuckwit Farage and his supporters have tried to organise something it has failed miserably.

This is not to say that I believe we should ignore the referendum result, far from it. I think we should have a proper think about why people voted Leave in the first place and we should address the issues that people were so upset about that they decided to give a big Fuck You to the Government even when, in a lot of their cases, they would actually make their own circumstances worse by doing so.

Those who voted leave in the referendum were not necessarily thick, but were certainly gullible and ignorant. Having got this far it's clear that remain is by far the best option. WA is a much poorer second choice. Anyone who wants no deal knowing what we know now is definitely thick (apart from a minority who stand to gain huge personal wealth from it). Sorry but there are no good arguments against remaining. The arguments I've heard are based on

1. believing lies about how much the EU costs with no mention of how much our economy benefits
2. Believing we have somehow lost sovereignty
3. Blaming the EU for things that are the fault of our own government (lack of regulation of the housing market, lack of investment in the regions, poor education and employment opportunities, not enough money in the NHS, too many immigrants claiming benefits)
4. Believing lies about bureaucracy whilst failing to appreciate all the benefits for working people from the EU regulations
5. Not realising the EU is by far our biggest trading partner because it's so close
6. Not understanding how EU commission and parliament work and thinking this is undemocratic
7. Thinking that everything will just carry on as before only somehow better
8. Not liking foreigners and failing to realise that we will still have immigrants if we are not in EU - they will just be from India and China instead
9. Outdated ideas about British supremacy /the empire/the fact that we won the war.

I know we all know this, but it really rammed it home walking behind this chap for hours today.
Shocking.

I agree with your post, LegalEagles but I can quite see why Leavers don't hit the streets. They're pilloried in a way that Remainers are not. That and they are (at the moment) getting their voted outcome; there's nothing for them to protest about.

I really hope that A50 is revoked.

I would love a50 to be revoked but where on earth would we get the mandate for that? Guardian article us good but will that have teeth? I don’t want people held accountable after the fact, I want it to stop.

My goodness

4,554,493 signatures on that petition now

4,567,699
I hope to god it keeps climbing. This is our only voice.

I was so disappointed it stopped at that number, I was hoping it would refresh to 4,567,890 but it’s refreshed to 4,571,???

4,571,110 I mean 😂😂

A common arguament for a second referendum is that those voting brexit didn't understand what they were voting for. What exactly would a remain vote mean? More of the same ? Financial penalties for trying and failing to/deciding not to leave?. What if we do not leave and there is then a Gerexit or a Frexit? Careful what you wish for.

I think the Germans and the French have learned an awful lot from us about what not to do.

to only be binding if the winning side achieved at least 55% of the vote

AlsoHuman. Who are you to decide the winning percentage? 51% is a win.

Also human is bang on, 51 (or 52) per cent is not a win, as we can see only too well at the moment. There isn’t enough of a consensus to push any one plan through. It’s anything but a win. So she’s right - only a bigger majority would work in practice otherwise yo are upsetting as many people as you are pleasing.

A common arguament for a second referendum is that those voting brexit didn't understand what they were voting for

They were lied to constantly, it wasn’t even just one lie. Loads of different lies, the lies often contradicted themselves.

LyingWitch I see what you're saying but from what I hear from Leavers online they are very, very worried now that Brexit will not go ahead and a lot of them believe it won't now, which makes you wonder why they are not out on the streets at this crucial time. It can't be that they all are worried about what people will think of them can it?

The people I know in real life who voted Leave voted for diverse reasons. Some of them I have more sympathy for than others.

A couple of friends are nurses and were worried about TTIP and what it would mean for the NHS. They were overwhelmed by the information about the vote but this (erroneous) piece of information was what swayed them in the end. Another friend has always been anti-EU, they are not racist in the slightest but think we should 'rule ourselves'. They also have little interest in history or politics. Two other friends were going to vote Remain until the last minute when they were swayed by the hype of the Leave campaign into being a bit rebellious. I don't think they really believed Leave would win and are very, very quiet about it all now. Another friend voted Leave because he had dealt with some EU funded projects and felt he had seen a lot of money wasted. He has now changed his mind and would vote Remain because he is sickened by the waste of money on Brexit! Various in-laws and their friends voted Leave because they are poorly educated and were frightened by the migrant crisis, the crap about Turkey and the thought we would 'have to' accept thousands of immigrants. They are older, definitely swayed by the tabloid newspapers they read, and they are now worriedly stocking up on tinned goods etc in case there is a No Deal outcome. An acquaintance (a former drug dealer) is deeply racist and voted for racist reasons.

None of these people (except perhaps the racist) will take part in any civil unrest. I suspect most of them will vote Remain in another referendum.

It’s laughable that Remainers are so excited about 4.7 million people signing this petition. Where the hell are the signatures of the other 11 million who voted remain in the referendum? Either they are now Brexiteers are just don’t care enough to be bothered. It just doesn’t mean or prove anything.

If we have a second referendum the margin has to be decisive, part of the problem was that the result was so close. 51% is absolutely not enough.

YABU for going on about it. Change the fucking record for Christ's sake. I'm sick of hearing and reading about Brexit. I don't care which side you're on. IDGAF.

Thankfully no one I know even talks about it, it's just nut bars on the internet who can't think about anything else.

I'm sick of hearing and reading about Brexit

Don’t open the thread then....