To think this absolutely is homophobic

[HuntIdeas]

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:

1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47613578

It has made me so fucking angry, theres no way it should be scrapped. It sounded a brilliant and well needed project, the deputy head was getting threats about it. Schools need to step in where parents fail on acceptance and tolerance. The harder those parents are protesting the more it is clearly needed.

Love is love at the end of the day. You can't help who you fall in love with. Be it two men, two women or a man and a woman. There's probably a small percentage of children at that Birmingham school with a gay relative {known or not} somewhere.
I believe if you are teaching children about relationships, you should teach them about all relationships. Tell them the truth, without maximum detail.

I remember my DD coming home from school at 7yo, whilst eating her tea,
she said. "Mum did you know 2 ladies can get married ".
Me: " yes I did".
DD: did you know 2 men can get married ".
Me: " yes".
DD: " did you know 2 men that get married are called homosexuals and 2 ladies that get married are called lesbians and I know that because ( friends name) told me".
I had a little chuckle to myself, but thought,well she didn't tell her anything that wasn't right.

Homophobia is a choice, homosexuality isn't.

UnPocoLoco2
At my children's school there is a few children who have two mums or two dads, loads who have divorced parents and all sorts of complicated set ups.
Its not teaching anything "heavy" its just teaching that relationships come in all sorts of shapes and its fine.

I'm a Head of PSHCE. I've taught in two church schools. Both were completely liberal and taught all about equality, homosexuality etc. Much of the UK church has moved on, or is at least moving on, from outraged and homophobic beliefs.
I'm also a Christian and have several gay Christian friends. Of course the media will always drag out the fundamentalists for the occasion, and legislation wise I'll admit the CofE has a way to go, but the majority of ordinary Christians are not homophobic or against gay relationships. Please don't tar us all with the same brush.

I get all the posts here. I have no problems whatsoever with any religious faith, sexual preferences, race or gender identity. We also live in London, so we naturally meet people from all backgrounds. I hope to raise our children to completely accept all others as they are.

I have now thought about it properly after reading this thread. My only problem is this: I want to be in control of anything related to sex education and gender identity. For religion, I am on the fence.

This is due simply to the fact that I want to protect my children’s childhood as long as I possibly can. They are immature compared to lots of their peers (not friends) and are just children. I believe that they learn through experience rather than lessons, so to play with friends of different faiths and to play with friends with gay parents is enough at this stage (in addition to watching me interact with all people and explaining everything they need). In secondary school, it is a completely different kettle of fish and they can teach whatever.

This reminds me of a book called “too much too soon” which criticises the early years foundation stage (EYFS). The EYFS increases the amount of academic learning at an early age as studies have shown that children form disadvantaged backgrounds know fewer words and are behind middle class children. What the EYFS doesn’t take into account is that this academic push actually is bad for the non-disadvantaged children as play is so important at this age.

Very selfishly, I feel that my children can grow up gay, trans or convert to a different faith if they choose. They will never be bigots as this concept is completely alien to our family values. I feel that they should learn through observing friends and my behaviour at this stage. However, due to some pockets of bigots, a curriculum which they may be too young for is forced upon them. I would rather that they were playing tag with their Muslim, Jewish, minority friends than hearing a teacher read books about it. I actually disagree with this. I know this is selfish. We recently had a school event for my oldest (10). I saw girls in make-up, girls talking about boys. My oldest has a set of friends who wears no make-up, plays football (one Muslim girl) and loves to watch my little pony on TV. I desperately want to protect her and her friends for a few more years.

Guess I really will be flamed now

"To think this absolutely is homophobic"

Taking the question literally then no, as to me homophobia is to demonstrrate prejudice or bigotry. And prejudice/bigotry isn't 'making a moral judgment I do not agree with' / 'holding an ideological position that is different than mine'.

That statement simply tells me that they think same-sex relationships are wrong in some way.

Prejudice would be more like assuming something negative about someone on insufficient evidence. eg 'that man is gay so is a threat to my kids'.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3385878-anyone-know-about-the-no-outsiders-in-our-schools-book-pack

This is the pack in question. I personally think it is wrong to tell children they can change sex or that they can be born in the "wrong" body. Appallingly wrong. I also object strongly to the sexualisation of children that is now in full swing here and the pushing of backwards stereotypes.

I have fought for gay rights and see no comparison with transideology whatsoever. I have however repeatedly seen nonsensical arguments for transideology pushed through on the back of gay rights and have also seen anyone who objects being depicted as racist/homophobic/bigoted. This makes me take these stories with a truck load of salt.

www.foxnews.com/world/hundreds-of-muslim-parents-protest-school-in-britain-over-lgbt-curriculum

I don't see homophobic signs here, I see concern about the sexualisation of children, bullshit transideology and a good bit of hate mongering against muslims.

Ah yes, fox news. A true bastion of journalism.

"That statement simply tells me that they think same-sex relationships are wrong in some way."

How is that not homophobic?

Saying that "morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have" is homophobic. Some of these children may grow up to be gay and will have been taught by their parents that that somehow makes them lesser. That's incredibly damaging.

Read the signs in the photos of the parents protesting, do you see any homophobic signs?

Pick any news story you like, these parents are being headlined as homophobic.

Their reason for protesting is concern for the sexualisation of children, the teaching of transideology (which is a homophobic belief system) and the undermining of parental judgement. Why isn't anyone reporting that?

Matter of fact why are these threads suddenly popping up on mn the week following an appalling terrorist atrocity against muslims instead of when the protest happened?

The trans ideology that so many are keen to blindly support opens the door to this :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3539292-trans-ageism
When children are taught to accept all gender identities regardless of biological sex, it becomes easier to accept all other trans options.

"How is that not homophobic?"

It is not if homophobic means demonstrating prejudice as opposed to just thinking it wrong.

People may think all sorts of sex/relationships are wrong. Sex outside of marriage, adultery, same-sex relationships, polygamous relationships, child marriage, doctor/patient, boss/employeee relationships etc etc.

You might believe some wrong, the next person might believe others wrong. Neither of you is being prejudiced simply because the other makes a different moral judgment than them.

"Prejudice" is not simply making the "wrong" moral judgment as someone else sees it.

If you think that same sex relationships are wrong then that's homophobic.

This thread has certainly moved quickly compared to the last one. A lot of posts I’d like to respond to individually if I get a chance but for now I don’t understand why so many posters are saying this protest goes against the law and that the school should stand up to them etc. Parents have the right in English law to withdraw their children from Sre, so if the protest hadn’t been successful they could have just done that. Actually I personally think they should have done that from the beginning. A pp said parents will no longer have the right to withdraw their children under new legislation but the parliamentary briefing I read states that religious exemptions will still be in place. I can’t find any information saying otherwise. The parents who don’t want their children to take this course are not in breach of the law.

The parents’ protest is, by their own admission, 100% because they believe homosexuality a wrong.

Not a single word about trans issues, unless you are talking about a different protest.

Yes, this. I would call myself gender critical, so would definitely understand if parents were worried about inappropriate materials encouraging children to believe that one can change sex. But that is not the argument they are making at all, it's just good old homophobia!

Let's not condone such dodgy views and pander to religious hardliners, it gives all gender critical people a bad name and is actually quite offensive to the many moderate Muslims / Christians / etc.

Ok I have to respond to sam221’s post stating that homosexuality is a natural inclination so those who are opposed to it must believe that God made a mistake. Why does this ludicrous argument constantly get trotted out? It was even on the circumcision thread as well. Of course we don’t think that. People might feel inclinations and desires to do all kinds of things, but if they want to obey Allah and practise their religion correctly then they have to avoid those forbidden things even if they are inclined to them. If that is difficult to do, it doesn’t mean Allah made any mistakes. Astaghfirullah. This life is not supposed to be easy, there are many tests people have to face

This is not about religious hardliners versus moderates. Look at the videos, see how many parents are protesting and some of them look like anything but hardliners. Homosexuality is forbidden in Islam and for now at least they have the right to withdraw their children from classes which go against their beliefs.

The protesters are demanding the programme to be dropped and the head was threatened. That is homophobic behaviour from hardliners. How dare they try and foist their beliefs onto a school and try to erase homosexuality.

Breeze44
Do you think people should have sexual relationships with people they don't want to, in order to appease your invisible friend?

I think if people want to have sexual relationships they should get married and if they don’t want to get married no-one can force them to. I’ll ignore the ‘invisible friend’ remark, don’t know why people can’t debate an issue without resorting to disrespectful jibes.

It's not disrespectful, he's your friend, and he's invisible, correct?

Religion isn't worthy of respect. People's right to believe bullshit is one thing, but no one is under any obligation to regard the bullshit as other than bullshit. Your imaginary friend is your problem, no one else's.

And I'm pretty sure this scrap is being revved up to give all the stupid, nasty fuckwits something to scream about. Muslim-bashers can froth about lack of integration and too many immigrants; pro-superstition idiots can wring their hands and whine about how no one cares about their imaginary friend and that's what's wrong with the world, people with a prurient, punitive attitude towards sex can huff and puff about children's 'innocence' (where does that leave the kids who have gay parents, gay cousins, etc?)... and the anti-trans people can barge in and start wailing about the need to stop trans people from... being trans people because everything has now got to be sidetracked onto the terrible threat that trans people pose to children.

Meanwhile the Government continues dismantling the country around us and selling it off, white male supremacists carry on stalking, harassing and killing people and being 'understood' because they are sad and lonely...

Yes, it’s homophobic.

Parents have the right in English law to withdraw their children from SRE

Indeed; but not to have parts of those lessons removed altogether

They could as you said have simply removed their children, and I doubt it would have left an empty class since I don't suppose for an instant that ever parent there is a bigot. It might even have been useful in highlighting those children who are being raised among prejudice. But no - they chose to turn it into a protest along the lines of "we don't like it so it shouldn't happen at all"

And what does a hardliner "look like" please?

"If you think that same sex relationships are wrong then that's homophobic."

In the eyes of those that see them as not wrong, sure.

Similarly those who do not agree with transgenderism are transphobic to those that do, those who do not agree with polygamy are polyphobic to those that do, those who think child marriage wrong child-marriage-phobic to those who do not.

All I am saying is is that I would use 'phobic' to mean 'prejudiced against', not just 'holds a different opinion than me'.

But other people are free to think differently of course.