To think this absolutely is homophobic

[HuntIdeas]

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:

1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47613578

Have really i seen a poster here manage to slip in that they liken the morals of gay relationships to those of one between a teacher and pupil?

We’re used to be compared to peadophiles, so it isn’t a great shock.

simon Your post earlier was amazing and tremendously moving.

This is shocking I would rather my children be taught equality and to accept others regardless of sexual orientation , race religion etc .... in terms of teaching the kids young .. I feel it is appropriate as feelings emotions start for a young age and kids can to relate to how they feel or what there sexuality is and feel it's ok without being judge .. this can make it easier to come out etc ..

It's not the same as religion as that's a choice in life

And I'm a gray believer i n choice and if you don't what your child to participate in such classes .. simply remove them from the class .. why challenge something that is needed ..... if I didn't want my child to practice prayers or join in other classes I would remove them but respect it

Definitely homophobic. And very unBritish.

It’s not homophobic imo.

Homophobic would be not talking to someone because they are gay or not working with someone because they are gay or treating them differently.

This is just another case of what is acceptable to you doesn’t have to / isn’t acceptable to other people. I’m not Muslim but I do believe homosexual relationships are not of God.

That doesn’t make me homophoobic !

Yeah but lovinglife, if you refuse to accept homosexual relationships as being a valid relationship, and wouldn't accept it as being real, it would be a homophobic attitude.

Yes it does. If you think homosexual relationships are not equal to heterosexual ones, you were homophobic.

Also, what the fuck does ' not of god' even mean?

Yes it does make you homophobic Loving

Ok there are a lot of comments and questions for me, I will try to work my way through in order starting with Hoover’s questions from yesterday and then go back and check the thread from the beginning for any I’ve missed. Please be patient as it will take time to respond to so many posters. Hoover I will have to come back to the question about Western scholars and interpretation of the Qur’an tomorrow as I want to check the names of the Western scholars I was thinking of and can’t open some of the pdf files on my phone.
I will answer the other points though. With regards to differences between scholars from different countries, yes there are many differences of opinion on certain issues because each area tends to follow a different school of jurisprudence. The four main schools which are still in operation today are Maliki, Hanafi, Shafi’i and Hanbali. So if someone goes to a different area where they primarily follow a different school they will find some differences but I wouldn’t characterise them as vast. All the schools agree on the main tenets of belief and on many, many rulings. I wouldn’t class them as different groups following different interpretations as I think that overemphasises the difference and it also misses the fact that there are different opinions within the schools as well as between them. For instance, some people state that the Hanbali school is more strict than the Maliki school but actually you will find Maliki scholars who agree with the Hanbali scholars on some points and vice versa. All the scholars are trying to deduce the correct rulings and the correct interpretations.
Secondly when dealing with Muslim countries nowadays you have to remember that the legal system in many countries is not full Sharia law. e.g. in Morocco there are some laws derived from Islamic law and others derived from the French legal system due to the influence of colonisation by France. Someone who studies law in some Muslim countries would only take a few modules in Islamic law and the rest of the modules in civil law of the country. So some of the differences between countries that you have noted in transactions between them could be due to this mixed legal system.
With regard to interpretations being more strict among UK Muslims than in their country of origin: it’s very difficult to generalise. In every country there are some people who are more practising than others, some who are more knowledgable than others etc. Even within countries there can be massive differences e.g. in countries with Western tourists you would see a huge difference between the tourist resorts and non-touristy towns within the same region.
What can happen sometimes is that Muslims who are not particularly assiduous in seeking religious knowledge in their own country become more knowledgeable when they come to the West as they face issues here that they wouldn’t face in their own country and so in the process they become more aware of Islamic rulings in general. It’s impossible to generalise though as it’s also true that it’s generally easier to seek knowledge in Muslim countries especially Arab countries. So much has changed because of the Internet as well, people are no longer solely dependent on what is available in their local area. Did you have a particular issue/example in mind?

Loving life - so what would you do if you were attracted to someone of the same sex or you had a child who was gay? Would you/they have to reject 'God'?

Nordic star you can’t eradicate our beliefs any more than we can eradicate yours. If someone does something against the law of the UK it would be dealt with, such as harassing someone but why do you think you have the right to try and control what people believe in a whole area?It isn’t possible anyway as beliefs are not something that can be controlled by other people. How would you go about it?

I just had this debate with my Christian friend. She says her words

It's the saying it's ok to be gay part which is the issue, because for Christian and Muslim people it's not ok to be gay.

She was pulled out of many sex Ed classes and will pull her kids out of these as she doesn't want to confuse them with 2 different teachings.

However ( i completely disagreed with her on it all) she did say that Christians and Muslims shouldn't hold their beliefs against non believers. She agreed with me then the programme should continue not banned and parents are the ones who should remove children.
I disagreed that learning about gay people is a choice ( her opinion ) or that it's confusing for children. I honestly think if children are taught and exposed to different relationships they will be a well rounded open individual.

Simon Your post, I have just read your post and my heart breaks, that you had go through experience.
@breeze Your views are not the representative of a every single 1.6 billion muslims across the world and you certainly do not speak for me.
I have no wish to engage in debate with someone, whom will not be moved beyond your own narrow viewpoint.

I am very proud to be a 'westernised' muslim, I love my country for all it faults and grew up with a healthy respect for all people/religions.
My parents were open minded, they embraced their new life, they learnt new things and incorporated in modern values.
We have members of our family who are openly gay and we are so so proud of them. Love is love and they have always been taught to be their own authentic self.
Just because things have been accepted in a certain way does not mean they should continue(slavery/segregation/females without rights).
So much pains comes from not accepting one another and would the world not just be a nicer place if we celebrated our diversity.
Children desperately need a space, like in schools to be taught about all love, equality and hope, so the next generation may grow without hatred in their hearts for others.
NO child should feel 'other' because of their sexuality and made to feel it can be overcome. There is nothing to overcome, homosexuality is a natural inclination and please let's all stop the hate rhetoric.

@puzzledandpissedoff
The people in the linked thread were ignorant. Only an Islamic judge in a sharia court in an Islamic country can issue any kind of punishment after having clear proof of an act committed and examining the whole case.
People saying things like if their brother came to them and said they were gay they would take them to Pakistan and kill them, that’s not allowed. And it wouldn’t be acceptable even if their brother said they had had gay relationships as there is no such thing as vigilantism in Islam.
I think most people who had a family member in that situation would try to advise them and listen to them and help them find a solution. Definitely they should pray for them and encourage them to pray to Allah for help as well.

It's not homophobic or prejudice etc to disagree with a view that conflicts with your own faith or morals. It's what we all do. Just because somebody's stance on a matter is different to the majority does not make them wrong or bad. I'm a Christian and therefore I know homosexuality is one of many sins and unacceptable to God. But I also know He commands me to love not hate everyone. You don't have to agree with someone's actions or lifestyle to love them.

medusa you’re correct about the new legislation. I had only read the summary on the front page rather than the full briefing. I think the language in the summary is not clear and doesn’t spell out the proposed change. In any case, this doesn’t affect the current situation in Birmingham as the law is not in force yet and also the school in question is an academy not a local authority school so the legislation doesn’t apply.

'People say - if their brother said they were gay, they would take them to Pakistan and kill them - that's not allowed'. You don't say

If you think that homosexuality is wrong you are homophobic. It's that simple.

And what does 'find a solution' mean? Do you actually think that people can just change their sexuality?

Well said @Sam221

I feel for any young people that are growing up in the houses with this attitude that know they are gay. Must be horrible for them.

Bobbin Himosexuality isn’t wrong or a sin. You are simply homophobic. Truth might not be palatable but it is what is.

And being gay isn’t a belief Breeze.

We have laws in our country to protect others from racism, homophobia, disablism etc. Quite simply Breeze anybody in our country has to live by these laws of common decency or face the consequences of the law within the country as a whole. Thankfully we don’t abide by individual laws. There would be anarchy if we did and clearly severe human rights issues.Anybody living here has to abide by said laws.I wouldn’t dream of going to a Muslim country and walk about with arms and hair on show.