To think this absolutely is homophobic

[HuntIdeas]

Muslim families have successfully argued for Birmingham primary schools to stop the No Outsiders programme

"Morally we do not accept homosexuality as a valid sexual relationship to have. It's not about being homophobic... that's like saying, if you don't believe in Islam, you're Islamophobic."

AIBU to think:

1. This absolutely is a homophobic thing to say
2. There are plenty of places in the world where you would get stoned for stating you didn’t believe in Islam!

Hopefully this link works: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-47613578

@NordicStar the difference is that in that case what was said was to a particular person in order to harass and bully him. While in this case the parents are just stating their opinion in a general way, not directed at anyone.

Breeze I agree, whilst the story is incredibly sad ( Simon these are for you 💐) much of it does not ring true for a traditional Muslim family- girlfriends to deflect attention, a dad who asks about your sexuality and is then willing to keep it a secret but you no longer have a family.

I'm muslim and I'm very conflicted about this.
I talk to my daughter about this at home and she knows that, as long as people are not harming others, they should be free to express as they wish and be treated fairly.
However, I don't trust teachers to teach her about LGBTQ topics. For a start humans cannot change sex. I don't want teachers armed with a pack from that odious organisation (begins with M) brainwashing my child that if you like boys things you might be a boy and it's fine to chop your boobs off.

Nope it was language generally used on the school bus too on separate incidents. Not directed at my son but completely unacceptable for him to be exposed to or it be heard in the general public.

So you think being gay is a problem that people can just overcome? I’m sorry but I find that attitude very damaging. This is the reason why the no outsiders programme should be taught as mandatory in all schools, with no exceptions.

How do you think my son feels watching these news stories with these hideous views? What about the kids without parents to reassure?

And why oh why does my son have to learn about a religion he does not believe in with respect when these parents don’t return the same courtesy? My son can’t do any thing about being gay. Frankly I think making him sit in a classroom learning about a religion he thinks is baloney and he knows thinks he shouldn’t exist and in some countries would stone him or throw him off a building is utterly wrong . Even more so when the above courtesy isn’t returned.

It’s difficult to comment without knowing what was said on the bus, but generally people have the right in the Uk to express their opinions even if that upsets others, as long as they are not doing it with the sole purpose of upsetting a particular group or individual.
Teaching about religion in schools is not being done as a courtesy to religious people, it’s done because people feel it is important to learn about world religions. You can opt him out if those lessons if you are unhappy.
I don’t understand what you mean about religion thinking he shouldn’t exist, that doesn’t make any sense.

Islam doesn’t recognise homosexuality. In some countries he’d be stoned as well you know.

Obviously said comments did offend an entire group- the LGBT community hence the exclusion.

It is important to learn about same sex relationships extremely so going by some of the ignorance shown by parents I saw interviewed.

And no he can’t opt out. RE with Islam as the chosen religion is mandatory at his school at GCSE and I don’t feel he should be one GCSE down because of the ignorance of others. I also didn’t kick up a fuss and demand Islam be dropped for Judaism- note the difference. It’s called tolerance.

Islam doesn’t recognise homosexuality. In some countries he’d be stoned as well you know
Muslims, like Christians, have different views on homosexuality.
Some are hard line conservatives and some are actually shock horror gay themselves. Not every Muslim is homophobic,not every Muslim thinks that being gay is wrong.
It’s incredibly insulting to moderate Muslims to lump them in the same group as the extremists.

I was close friends with a man who came from an extremely loving Christian family. He got engaged to one of the women in his church and all seemed hunky dory. Then he came out as gay and admitted to his fiance that he couldn't go ahead with the wedding. He was devastated, so was she. Despite his family being close they just could not accept him as a gay man. He moved away and cut ties with his old friends.
In his case it was heartbreaking for all concerned. It seems ludicrous to anyone outside this that it came to this, but I don't think it is unusual to have to choose between your life as an openly gay person or to be part of a conservative culture.

You can't 'overcome' your sexuality.

And to think we occasionally get threads on here asking "Why do we still need Pride marches?". Things are better than they were, but some way to go.

Gamerwidow - would you say breeze’s view is moderate or extreme as he/she is the person Nordic is responding to? I find the idea that people can overcome their sexuality to be abhorrent but have no idea how in line that view is with the general teachings of Islam.

Well then Gamer these parents are in the Muslim minority alongside being wrong and homophobic.

www.bbc.com/bitesize/guides/z8kjpv4/revision/5

The above is what my ds has to learn re Islam so you’re wrong too and need to take a closer look at the Quran.

Qur’an

@breeze44 But kids can't 'come to their parents with their worries and problems' if they're gay and their parents are homophobic, that's the point.

And what does 'not a permanent part of their identity' mean? Are you suggesting that sexuality can be wilfully changed?

Frankly if state schools are going to spend tax payers money on teaching such views to children they can damn well counter balance the damage they cause as regards the mental health of LGBT children by providing education that explains how wrong they are and how natural same sex rrlationships are.

No I don’t think breezes view is moderate. I have personally met Muslims who would also not think their views are moderate. Like Christianity Islam is,for want of a better phrase, ‘a broad church’.
I think I’m mostly agreeing with N0rdicstar but like the bible there is no set interpretation on the Qur’an and it’s unfair to use such broad strokes to describe Muslim views.

On paper Christianity is also intolerant of homosexuality but many Christians don’t follow the official line and the same is true for Muslims.

From my recollection the Old Testament is pretty homophobic, but the New Testament is more 'love the sinner if not the sin' (bearing in mind everyone is a sinner). But you will find a huge range of how that manifests in reality. In some you will find openly gay clergy and worshippers whilst this would be unthinkable elsewhere.

It’s worth bearing in mind that there are a lot of cultural Muslims too who will do the celebrations but not really follow the day to day Islamic stuff a bit like Christians who only go to church for weddings and funerals.

(thinking) being gay is a problem that people can just overcome ... is the reason why the no outsiders programme should be taught as mandatory in all schools, with no exceptions

Indeed

Upthread I was asked what I meant in saying that some parental attitudes around this subject might lead to situations where child protection issues arise

Looking on muslim fora at some parents' suggestions on how the "overcoming" of same sex feelings might be "assisted", I'd say the question's pretty well answered ...

On paper Christianity is also intolerant of homosexuality but many Christians don’t follow the official line and the same is true for Muslims

A well put and important reminder ... though I don't think anyone here's suggested that all muslims feel the same way about any given subject?

I’m aware that some people follow their particular religion more rigidly than others, but this isn’t a thread about religious attitudes to gay people in general. It is about a particular successful protest, the result of which means that the no outsiders programme is now not going to reach some of the very children who in my opinion are in need of it the most. Particularly in light of the gcse bite size link Nordic posted. The information on the website doesn’t seem very moderate to me and I am astounded that it is being taught in school. Without the programme, some gay children brought up in very religious households with parents that hold extreme views may never get told that being gay is completely natural. The result of which will be more children experiencing damaging childhoods such as Simon experienced. I was raised a Christian and, although still a theist, don’t follow any organised religion and personally believe we need to become completely secular with religion playing no part in state or education.

Yes on this point I completely agree with you Limitedsimba123