To think that Teresa May's speech this evening was an absolute fucking disgrace?

[Livingtothefull]

'You, the public, have had enough.
“You’re tired of the infighting, you’re tired of the political games and the arcane procedural rows, tired of MPs talking about nothing else but Brexit when you have real concerns about our children’s schools, our National Health Service, knife crime'.

“You want this stage of the Brexit process to be over and done with. I agree. I am on your side. ”

So: 'You’re tired of all the shit that my party and my government have caused eg through years of cuts to the health and police services. It's not my fault that Brexit has been so appallingly badly handled, I'm only the Prime Minister and it's everyone else's fault. So why not just let me have my way and things will all get better? I am a mindreader and presume to know what you want, even though I display zero empathy in my public utterances, and I know you all want Brexit (even though only a small proportion of the electorate actually voted for it, 3 years ago)'.

We’re finished as a country if this is the best we can do, it is just heartbreaking that our country has been brought to this. I cant believe that this woman is in a position of such power and represents our country.

I don't WANT you on my side, just get away from me.

Spring walk

The EU should always have had absolute faith in itself too allow members to leave.

I too would be embarrassed with tusk etc.
Junker is emotionally wedded too EU project so he sees it as personal insult.

Everyone who doesn't agree with Brexit wants it to be as painful as possible.

The EU and remainers...they love this chess game where tm hands are tied they don't want it to succeed.

The EU would love the UK to crash out as painfully as possible, to teach all the other prisoners not to attempt an escape.
The illusion that the EU institution is beneficial and wonderful for its members has been well and truly shattered throughout these negotiations, they would/should have the self confidence to let members leave knowing that the other countries wouldn’t dream of leaving, and allow proper civilised negotiations to take place to facilitate an orderly departure. But that is very unlikely.

What the actual fucking planet have you been living on these last couple of years. The EU has bent over backwards to do a deal with the UK. It's May's own self imposed red lines that have made it next to impossible. The UK negotiators tried to break every rule in the book and conduct deals behind the EU's back and were told to gtfo by every country they tried it on with.

And as for the "illusion" of being in the EU being good for it's members being shattered! ARE YOU ON CRACK!!!!!! Seriously? Little Ireland, bullied by the UK for it's entire history but now the significantly more powerful country that can hold it's ground as an equal and say no to being ridden roughshod over. And you think that shows the benefits of EU membership as an illusion. I've been eurosceptic for about 25 years and all this has shown me is that the EU is a great leveller and much better thing to be part of. What is wrong with the UK is that it wants to lead the EU and as part of it was made to be an equal with countries it considers lesser. Being an equal isn't subservience but those clinging to the great British Empire can't understand that.

And one last thing. If you think that being a member of the European Union made you subject to minor powers like France and Germany, good luck negotiating with China and the US. Your going to get creamed.

Desperateforspring, what is not a matter of opinion is that (a) the referendum was only advisory and (b) the result was obtained through serious fraud. So no, I don't think you can say that the majority of the electorate expect May to deliver Brexit. If there is doubt about that, obviously the way to find out is to put it straight back to the electorate.

You put forward a hypothetical issue in the future where we disagree with Parliament. That really isn't the bogeyman you think it is. In the nature of things, Parliament will regularly be doing things that some part of the electorate doesn't like. I can't think of any conceivable issue on which it would go collectively mad and push through something which virtually the entire electorate was united in hating, simply because MPs know that ultimately they are accountable to the electorate. That is the beauty of Parliamentary democracy, and that is why we need to be ruled by Parliament and not by referendum.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_personality

Theresa May

What is wrong with the UK is that it wants to lead the EU and as part of it was made to be an equal with countries it considers lesser
No it didn't

Complete disgrace. She just blames MP's for not approving her deal. She has said nothing new for months, she's an old fashioned bully like Trump. She didn't take anyone's advice about what sort of deal would work, and has just delivered a take it or leave it option. She's making crashing out more likely, not less.

She should be booted out! Just how much has all of this cost and it is not over yet. We will remain - that is what she wanted to do and that is how it will be. Just let us get on with it as she is not on our side, only her own side!

@Desperateforspring I'm not convinced that May's plan does represent the will of the people though. It goes against so many promises of the Leave campaign during the referendum (we will of course not leave the customs union etc) which in itself was so disparate in its claims that who knows what kind of Brexit people in the Leave camp were actually voting for? Certainly not Theresa May as she has singularly failed to design a process for drafting the Withdrawal Agreement that involved consultation or achieving cross party consensus, which has inevitably led us to the current position.

I was in the Remain camp but accept the vote to Leave. But not at any cost. She has listened too much to the ERG and nobody else. She has hamstrung herself with the despicable coalition with the DUP. I used to have some sympathy for her for the enormity of the task she had ahead of her. But not now. All she is now doing is trying to bully parliament in to a deal they have already rejected twice. There are very good reasons for the parliamentary precedent that the speaker has invoked in not being able to bring the same proposition to vote multiple times in one parliamentary session and I applaud him for his actions. But even that appears to fall on deaf ears when it comes to May and her cronies and they are likely to ignore or thwart it.

The notion that this is all down to the evil EU making life difficult for the UK is absolutely ludicrous. There seems to be a section of the Leave side that seriously believes that the EU has a duty to let us have all or most of the benefits of membership whilst not being members, and that they're being beastly and plotting against us if they don't go along with that. So far as I'm concerned, of course the EU has to protect its own and its members' interests: why wouldn't it? If anyone really voted for Leave in the expectation that the EU would give the UK everything it asked for, their vote should be invalidated.

She is getting more and more deranged. Whole thing is a shit show. Taxi for May - dont bother to write!

The Old Bill must 100% feel as though they’ve been gaslighted. She has been against them since she was Home Secretary and has presided over their budgets being reduced whilst denying it’s the reason for crime going up.

Then last night she made out it was nothing to do with her. It was someone else.

I just think that it's 'an absolute fucking disgrace' that someone who's so angry about the Prime Minster can't even manage to spell her name correctly..... It's really not difficult.

I think people need to remember that her deal even though it doesn't have a majority, still has more support than all thr other plans. Norway, customs union whatever.

When were Norway, customs union etc voted on then? How has it been established that these alternatives are not supported by parliament?

Norway don't want us!

Dramatic swearing and pearl clutching will not change a thing.

We voted to leave.

We are a democracy.

We are leaving.

You have had two full years to get used to the idea, and still some posts on here seem very far from balanced and accepting. You can move to Ireland and you can move to the EU if it matters to you so much, there are plenty of countries to choose from (for the moment) but the UK will leave, we will go on to form better alliances that are based on mutual respect and democratic values.

Get over it. Or get therapy but you can't carry on as you are.

She’s a national disgrace, incompetent and needs to go.

Norway definitely are not interested in the UK joining their small club. The UK is too much of a heavyweight apparently.

Secondly the customs union idea won't work and has not support beyond a few labour hopefuls. There is an EU custom union already they don't need various versions of the same thing.

We are leaving with or without a deal people.

I actually had a fair bit of grudging respect for May in terms of her determination to carry out what is being painted as the will of the people (who were sold bullshit on the side of a bus etc etc)... but her repeated bringing of the same bloody thing to Parliament to try to wear them down, and then the tone last night... she completely got it totally wrong and pissed me off completely with how she spoke to the public.

I was half-expecting her to leave the Downing Street cat in charge of Brexit negotiations - cos let's face it - every other bugger's had a go at trying to sort the mess out.

And in the interests of disclosure: I voted remain and would vote remain again tomorrow.

Can any of her critics outline what they would have done in the circumstances? How would they have negotiated with 26 who won't negotiate?

The referendum was advisory. Had I been in May's position I would

a) not trigger article 50

b) formed some sort of committee involving politicians from all parties, experts to analyse the options and a representatives of the people most affected starting with the status of non UK EU citizens in this country, then looking at the Irish boarder

c) announce the policy decided on non UK Eu members

d) once there was a plan, or plans, put it back to the people with the options so a fully informed decision could be made.

You have had two full years to get used to the idea, and still some posts on here seem very far from balanced and accepting.

Hahaha...maybe we’d be more accepting if we actually knew wtf was happening and there was a set plan in place! It’s a shit show. If leaving Brexit was such a brilliant idea, why is it so hard to leave?

I'm not sure from leaving the EU pov which Is what we are trying to do, people expect her to do .it seems too me people are angry because they don't want Brexit and they want the process to be frustrated

Some do but the WA is a very bad deal, strips the UK of sovereignty and leads to years of endless argument.
This is why leavers and remainers are against it.

She hasn't led her Govt, Parliament or the country, she has governed by focus group, has no conviction and is behaving like a General blaming his troops for losing the battle

She has point blank refused to have genuine cross party talks or have a series of indicative votes in order to see what Parliament wants after it defeated her deal.

I'm as fervent a remainer as they come BUT would accept leaving the EU as was promised by leading brexitiers in 2015/15 .... a EFTA style deal where we leave the institutions of the EU but keeps the border in NI frictionless and keeps the 'city and manufacturing in the UK.

Disconnect between Parliament and the "people" is down to the FPTP voting system ie the 16.2 million remainers who are utterly ignored in this debate

As an EU official said yesterday "dealing with the UK is like dealing with a failed state" and as PM that is entirely Mays fault.

Yeah, we're only unimpressed by this screaming shitshow because of the topic that's being voted on, not because, er, it's a screaming shitshow.

I don't have to imagine a time when Parliament doesn't represent me or people like me, because as an disabled woman hit by welfare-restructuring and austerity under both NuLabour and the Tories I've already lived it.

I'm still going to call May's behaviour appalling.

More than two years failing to to get this together, making unforced errors to appease the ERG-types, and then appealing directly to the people to believe in her personally not Parliament...

If she had more charisma I'd say that was a dictator move. But given she hasn't, I think she's just running away, like Johnson and Gove and Davis ran away. But she's doing it while still in office, and playing with some very dangerous rhetoric to do it.

EU had no intention of offering a deal of any kind. We knew that two years ago, and I am sorry it’s taken you this long to work it out.

If only they’d put a number of different options on the table and allowed us to choose a starting point then things could have been different...

As for ‘we voted to leave’, leave how? SM, CU, both, neither, no deal. Which of those has a majority in Parliament? Which has a majority among the electorate? Blame remainders all you like but you can’t even get leave voters/ MPs to support this deal. And that absolutely is down to TM.

I'm not sure how some of you think any other MP or PM could have done better?

The country is divided.

MPs are divided.

Labour are divisive and won't even join in talks.

Her cabinet is full of MPs out for their own glory and want her to quit.

She is 100% right that the country are sick of the whole thing.

She was handed the poison chalice.

How would all your lot who think she'd useless have managed it?
No deal or a deal is never going to please everyone.

The mistake she made was to have an election resulting in a hung parliament and the worst mistake before that was DC giving a referendum.