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Original poster

To let you know thought crime is now a thing

317 replies

CalliopeMeansMusic · 20/03/2019 09:41

Apologies for the odious DM link, but this has really chilled me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6827459/Catholic-journalist-questioned-caution-police-misgendering-someones-daughter.html

A woman is being investigated by police and faces a two year jail sentence for allegedly misgendering Jackie Green during a tweet. What has the world become when we cannot state simple, biological facts without fear of prosecution? And why do the beliefs of the mother and daughter (that they are now living as a member of the opposite sex) trump the beliefs of Caroline Farrow? I am all for protecting vulnerable people from hate crimes, but this is not a hate crime, and makes a mockery of people facing real discrimination and fear.

On the plus side, I may move to Surrey; clearly its ridiculously safe if the police have all that time to investigate this!

OP posts:
RepealTheGRA · 20/03/2019 16:46

Thanks for the response Usernumbers1234 I do see where you’re coming from.

How would you have run the campaign/how should it have been run?

Ultimately though I agree with this:

And if you think if women had just been nice and sensible and politely put forward our views things would have been different you really have no idea of what's been going on over the last few years. Women have been attacked, threatened with rape and murder, their employment threatened, their families threatened, meetings closed down, been surrounded by masked men and their views not represented in the media until recently (on the back of a tremendous amount of work by some brave, intelligent women).

I don’t want the middle ground, I want freedom of speech in practice as well as in law. I also want my sex based rights in practice as well as in law.

Where is the middle ground with people who think my speech should be compelled and my boundaries are up for debate?

teyem · 20/03/2019 16:49

I think that ship has sailed Xenia and I don't think it's coming back.

exculpatrix · 20/03/2019 16:49

It's not really a thought crime if you say it out loud or write it down. At that point it's something closer to harassment, hate speech, or similar. It's only a thought crime if it stays limited to... well, thoughts.

RepealTheGRA · 20/03/2019 16:50

Thanks for the response Usernumbers1234 I do see where you’re coming from.

How would you have run the campaign/how should it have been run?

Ultimately though I agree with this:

And if you think if women had just been nice and sensible and politely put forward our views things would have been different you really have no idea of what's been going on over the last few years. Women have been attacked, threatened with rape and murder, their employment threatened, their families threatened, meetings closed down, been surrounded by masked men and their views not represented in the media until recently (on the back of a tremendous amount of work by some brave, intelligent women).

I don’t want the middle ground, I want freedom of speech in practice as well as in law. I also want my sex based rights in practice as well as in law.

Where is the middle ground with people who think my speech should be compelled and my boundaries are up for debate?

RepealTheGRA · 20/03/2019 16:51

I’ve redo my post. I’m pissising myself else with my inability to bold.

RepealTheGRA · 20/03/2019 16:52

Or spell!

sackrifice · 20/03/2019 16:52

Everyone that has referenced her on this thread has said “I don’t agree with most of what she says, but I agree with this” - that’s the kind of thing some (not me) say about Yaxley-bloody-Lennon, and that’s not what you want out front in a campaign that needs the middle ground, not someone with a history of tagging herself to every cause she can find with a bizarre set of values behind her.

I don't agree with much Caroline says, apart from the fact that we are both women. I don't agree with anything Yaxley says, apart from the fact that he is a man. Agreeing with someone on one thing doesn't make you right wing on another. And it is tedious to keep coming up with the comparison. Both Hitler and Jesus probably agreed that water is wet. Doesn't make them right on every other thing they said or stood for. Surely people understand this?

RepealTheGRA · 20/03/2019 16:54

exculpatrix I think people are talking about ‘thought crime’ because of the connections made with Harry Miller being told by the police to ‘check his thinking’ either way it’s all a bit 1984.

Bluestitch · 20/03/2019 16:57

They have not complained about what their mother did so whereas I don't think it was best practice it also seems to be a victimless crime

Susie Green has a massive amount of influence in public policy. She is also campaigning for age reduction for hormones and surgery. I think her previous actions regarding her own child (which she herself publicised) are fair game for comment and criticism.

sackrifice · 20/03/2019 17:19

Actually, I think the tweets are pretty off. The person in question - jackie- is a living, breathing human being and now an adult. They have not complained about what their mother did so whereas I don't think it was best practice it also seems to be a victimless crime. And it couldn't be nice for jackie to read about it that way.

So we look away when people get illegal drugs, chemically castrate their own children, laugh about their tiny penis and post the hilarity on you tube, and then actually take them to another country [which has now made castration illegal at that age], because we don't want to hurt feelings?

Nobody can reverse the surgery but pretending all is well, when the woman who did this is influencing public policy, and trying to get people fired or getting them arrested for saying what happened; as well as the violent thuggery that is committed towards women who are not even allowed to hold their own meetings about the actual law???

They want people silenced for pointing this out. This was one of the test cases they are trying to get through to make it a hate crime to point out that sterilising children is wrong.

Well, bugger me, what sort of person wants it to be illegal that sterilising kids is wrong? It might be worth thinking why they are trying so hard to silence so many people pointing out facts?

Xenia · 20/03/2019 17:44

Exactly. It should all be open for debate. Most people agree yet so many of the people who change the rules and law seems to be the minority who don't.

havingtochangeusernameagain · 20/03/2019 17:45

I'm utterly outraged by this too.

And the police are underfunded?

Priorities please!

PencilsInSpace · 20/03/2019 22:39

Thought crime isn't "a thing"

From Harry Miller's account of his contact with Humberside police after he 'liked' someone else's tweet:

This is where it gets incredibly sinister. The cop told me that he needed to speak with me because, even though I’d committed no crime whatsoever, he needed (and I quote) ‘to check my THINKING!’ Seriously. Honestly.

Full account in this article by James Kirkup in the Spectator:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/is-it-now-a-crime-to-like-a-poem-about-transgenderism/

Tinkerbell456 · 20/03/2019 22:47

Wow Harsh-two years? Was the misgendering a mistake or deliberate? Refused to pollute my eyes with the article I’m afraid! It is true to say that you can’t alter DNA. However, if someone wants to identify as being the opposite to their biological sex, it’s their right and privilege and their wish should be respected. Does seem a bit like being imprisoned for a thought crime.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/03/2019 22:47

The police are harassing people who they know have committed no crime
because of "incorrect thinking"

Something is either illegal to say, or it isn't

It is illegal to use racial epithets, because these are just insults.
We could - and probably should - create offences specifying insults wt trans, like "tr@@ny" or "T@@F"

However, it can't be made illegal to state biological facts

and being tactless or unkind, but truthful - e.g. "you are fat", "you are male / he" - is not a criminal offence

PencilsInSpace · 20/03/2019 22:58

That’s my point, she’s not wrong but she’s not the right person

Tell us who the 'right person' is and we'll get straight onto arranging for Susie Green to report them to the police Hmm

LimeKiwi · 20/03/2019 23:01

Yeah, but Harry The Owls account wasn't just that, was it, pencils? Saying it was all about that is either deliberately or unintentionally obtuse.
There was quite a few tweets from what I saw.

PencilsInSpace · 20/03/2019 23:06

Which tweets were they? Please share.

LimeKiwi · 20/03/2019 23:07

Just read the account. Assuming they haven't been deleted that is, as admittedly it was a month or so ago I looked when saw it linked on here

Skyzalimit · 20/03/2019 23:11

Thinking something like 'that lady is a child abuser cos she took her trans kid for treatment' is not a crime. Posting it on Twitter can cause harm and is therefore a hate crime. It's not rocket science.

PencilsInSpace · 20/03/2019 23:12

All his account? His whole timeline? Back how far?

Can you be a bit more specific about which tweets you find objectionable, or which you think he might have been reported to Humberside police for?

Otherwise it just looks like a vague unsubstantiated smear.

LimeKiwi · 20/03/2019 23:13

Just had to go look. Just today - "hey! It's my intention to keep misgendering today!"
That's today. So obviously hasn't changed much since last looked.
The tweets look like they're out to harass/upset.
Just why? Thought crime isn't a thing. Actively harassing and sending shit to people on social media is.

ColeHawlins · 20/03/2019 23:15

I like Caroline. There's plenty I disagree with her about, but she's sincere and pleasant and certainly no troll.

ReanimatedSGB · 20/03/2019 23:19

There does seem to be quite a lot of 'boohoo, I'm being persecuted for TELLING THE TRUTH' coming from people who... turn out to have quite a lot of form for attention-seeking, deliberate and persistent namecalling and a certain amount of economy with that truth. On both sides of this particular dispute.

ColeHawlins · 20/03/2019 23:25

You WOULD say that @ReanimatedSGB Grin