To let you know thought crime is now a thing

[CalliopeMeansMusic]

Apologies for the odious DM link, but this has really chilled me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6827459/Catholic-journalist-questioned-caution-police-misgendering-someones-daughter.html

A woman is being investigated by police and faces a two year jail sentence for allegedly misgendering Jackie Green during a tweet. What has the world become when we cannot state simple, biological facts without fear of prosecution? And why do the beliefs of the mother and daughter (that they are now living as a member of the opposite sex) trump the beliefs of Caroline Farrow? I am all for protecting vulnerable people from hate crimes, but this is not a hate crime, and makes a mockery of people facing real discrimination and fear.

On the plus side, I may move to Surrey; clearly its ridiculously safe if the police have all that time to investigate this!

Birds CF and abortion, CF and Gay marriage. She would like us back to the 18th Century.

Nope, she is just following RC teachings as far as I can see. Other religions have similar moral stances iirc. She is perfectly entitled not to agree with those things, as are those of no faith.

Is it a mistake to publish the truth LemonTT? And is it hate to refer to an adult male human as a man or call them 'he'? If so, Green has herself referred to her child as 'he'.

Speaking the truth may be a revolutionary act but it should never be a criminal one.

We really do live in strange times. 1984 is often mentioned in relation - I recommend this book too www.amazon.co.uk/Extraordinary-Popular-Delusions-Madness-Crowds/dp/149036188X/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=extraordinary+popular+delusions+and+the+madness+of+crowds&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1553078681&sr=8-1

As an atheist, I disagree with CF on many issues. However, she has been aggressively harassed and stalked for her beliefs. She's entitled to state the fact that nobody can change sex.

Describing her as a troll is a horrific lie. It's not acceptable to lie like this just because you disagree with her.

I think freedom of speech is bigger than dislikeable people and the right to state the truth is a foundation of democracy.

In this case there was no hate Lemon just a statement about humans not being able to change sex, a boy being a boy who grew up, almost, to have surgery to look like a girl.

None of that is hate. The people involved have posted many thousands of words about Jack/Jackie, made films, made a living, made a charity all about it. So no secrtes were divulged either!

I would certainly like a lot more press freedom than we currenlty have. It is getting police state like... ..

Also is someone has not yet under the current law changed their gender then it surely must not be a crime to state a fact - their current gender under the law.

This is just one of a large number of incidents involving the police being used to try to suppress discussion on this issue. Only a few people have openly discussed what is happening to them but I know there are others and transactivists are openly boasting online about a large number of arrests and police questioning of people who dare to disagree with them.

These are a few other examples of people who have gone public on what is happening to them:

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/is-it-now-a-crime-to-like-a-poem-about-transgenderism/

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6687123/Mother-arrested-children-calling-transgender-woman-man.html

www.itv.com/news/anglia/2019-02-07/police-apologise-to-blogger-in-transgender-row/

www.theposieparker.com/interviewed-under-caution

I think a lot of this is just to intimidate people (and in some cases the police have admitted that no crime has been committed) but the courts are also being used.

Just this month, Miranda Yardley (who is a transsexual but agrees with feminists on issues such as sex self-ID and doesn't think you can actually change sex) was taking to court for alleged transphobic harassment of a Mermaids employee (who isn't trans but supports the current dominant trans ideology). The judge threw the case out and instructed the CPS to pay Miranda's cost (which is very rare and indicates that the CPS really screwed up in bringing this case):

www.thesun.co.uk/news/8550151/first-uk-transgender-hate-crime-trial-scrapped/

While transactivists and the police (by their own admission) are trying to bring test cases and establish a precedent in court of being able to prosecute people for "wrongthink", - even where the cases don't result in prosecution, it is still a very effective tool. Miranda was put through months of hell even though the case, as determined by the judge, was absolute nonsense. Regardless of the outcome, Kate Scottow has been arrested in front of her children, locked in a cell for several hours, denied sanitary products and had her technology removed hindering her from continuing her studies. The worry of what will happen to her can be left to hang over her for months or years. The police got in touch with Harry Miller through what they thought was his boss - which if that had been the case, could have resulted in a risk to his employment, even though, by their own admission, they were clear that he had committed no crime.

This should worry all of us, no matter what our views.

This isn't the first time Mermaids (Susie Green is CEO) have used the police for this type of thing, it's ridiculous. I feel sorry for Caroline Farrow, she's a mother of five and she's barely slept for two nights because of the distress of this. One day SG will have to look inwards for what she did to her child, speed dialling the police for anyone who doesn't applaud her actions is just a prolonging tactic.

This is a curious Mumsnet hobbyhorse. It IS nonsense to make this kind of thought-crime an actual offence, particularly in light of the biological fact that sex is an empirical fact, whereas gender is a social construct. However, all the trans-bashing arguments on this forum regarding the topsy-turvy world of modern political correctness always ignore the inconvenient fact that this doesn't just apply to trans-rights.

I actually see a lot of the arguments on here as bigotry, not much different to misogyny, or racism; driven by ignorance, emotion and fear (particularly of losing one's 'identity' to perceived outsiders). It makes me feel the same as hearing UKIPers complaining about foreign labour suppressing wages, changing the character, and driving up crime in some areas. Underneath all the anger and emotion, there is often a grain of truth, but the argument is lost as soon as passion is allowed to take over.

My point is, there's often a grain of truth that drives people's anger and bigotry, but that doesn't make it attractive or even acceptable. But, just because something offends, doesn't mean it should be criminalised. 'Progressives' should be careful what they try to ban, as it will invariably come and bite them on the arse when their turn comes.

What @LemonTT said.

However, all the trans-bashing arguments on this forum regarding the topsy-turvy world of modern political correctness always ignore the inconvenient fact that this doesn't just apply to trans-rights. What isn't? Science? The law?

I have no idea what point you are trying to make but comparing GC women to UKIPers isn't going to endear you much.

You seem to be saying that women must be nice, attractive, acceptable in order to get their point across.... and I think you'll find we're regressive in that we don't want to change what 'woman' actually means!

Don't the police have real crimes to investigate? 🤔

Buts it not about policing thoughts or opinions, they are policing what people publish.

Yes this is the most disturbing part of this imo. The police policing something a journalist has published.

No one knows what was actually said at the moment so it will be interesting to find out.

Whatever it is why are the disgusting comments and threats against women left unpoliced day after day yet this has been picked up?

I actually see a lot of the arguments on here as bigotry, not much different to misogyny, or racism; driven by ignorance, emotion and fear

Interesting, can you give an example?

Meanwhile the police are failing to protect women from domestic abuse, harassment, stalking and rape:

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/20/police-failing-to-protect-and-abuse-victims-says-super-complaint

Whatever your views on Caroline Farrow (and I disagree with her profoundly on most issues), her situation demonstrates what is going on this country. While the police are pursuing her for "misgendering":

twitter.com/CF_Farrow/status/1107788238855516160

"Meanwhile a group of people have terrified and harassed my family. Doxed my children, made violent and sexual threats, signed me up to porn accounts, did the same to my husband, threatened to visit here. And tumbleweed..."

I'll wait for the woke to come along and say how threatening to beat and rape someone and posting details of where their followers can find said person to carry out these actions is equivalent to using the "wrong" pronouns or expressing a political view they disagree with and that if you want free speech you have to just accept violent and sexual threats against women as part of that.

I know. It's been terrible for people.
My son back from university yesterday mentioned the trans people there and how extreme they are. I suggested trying to keep out of it - a lot of them have serious mental health issues which as I said to my son is not surprising as it is so awful to be born into the wrong body as it were but the result they tend not to be as stable as everyone else.

There are many many times more anti women comments on line but the police rarely seem to pick those up unless it amounts to a death threat.

This is just one of a large number of incidents involving the police being used to try to suppress discussion on this issue.

^^ This is my concern.

I don’t know much about this individual but I am increasingly aware that this is happening to a number of people – which is a worrying pattern.

Ms Green and those push and push threatening in different directions until public opinion boomerangs against them. They then withdraw re-group and have a bite of the cherry elsewhere.

However, all the trans-bashing arguments on this forum regarding the topsy-turvy world of modern political correctness always ignore the inconvenient fact that this doesn't just apply to trans-rights

To be fair babycham I think the readiness of the police to arrest someone for saying something perceived as offensive is far more prevalent in the context of trans rights. That’s part of the problem. I understand Caroline has received terrible treatment far worse than a couple of mean tweets and I don’t think she has had any support from the police.

I totally disagree with Caroline about so much, but my opposition to women receiving abuse is not contingent on me agreeing with them.

It's not thought crime though, is it. She posted her thoughts on social media.

Thought crime will never be a thing because no one knows what you are thinking. I could be a racist Nazi paedophile in my own mind, but it's only when I start to articulate those thoughts, or act on them, that I run into danger of committing a crime.

Some idiot in Oldham was arrested for tweeting something offensive about Islam. plus ça change, plus c'est la même

All the police are doing is investigating a complaint made by members of the public. Happens all the time in relation to prominent figures and just serves to frustrate their real work. But they are obliged to do it. The police are not the people who charge or judge. That’s the CPS or the courts using all the facts.

The woman in question and the complainants want to create divisions and use a wedge issue to polarise people and mock our systems. Just ignore them and their activities.

YANBU

Certain people are trying to police peoples thoughts by fear. They’re attempting to shut people up by making an example of Caroline and others who speak up. It’s totalitarian.

Human beings cannot change sex. And I have a right to say that.

Transwomen are men, that is a legal opinion as confirmed recently by the government.

Those that can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.

This should concern everybody whether they like Caroline or not, it is an attack on democracy.

I disagree with her views on abortion but I don’t ever want to see her stripped of her rights to her beliefs.

lemonTT

The problem is that if the police are obliged to investigate then why? Why are they obliged to investigate this “hate speech” but not the alleged hate speech against Caroline?

Why are they obliged to investigate this but not more serious crimes? My parents were burgled last Autumn and they got barely 5 minutes of police time.