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Original poster

To let you know thought crime is now a thing

317 replies

CalliopeMeansMusic · 20/03/2019 09:41

Apologies for the odious DM link, but this has really chilled me.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6827459/Catholic-journalist-questioned-caution-police-misgendering-someones-daughter.html

A woman is being investigated by police and faces a two year jail sentence for allegedly misgendering Jackie Green during a tweet. What has the world become when we cannot state simple, biological facts without fear of prosecution? And why do the beliefs of the mother and daughter (that they are now living as a member of the opposite sex) trump the beliefs of Caroline Farrow? I am all for protecting vulnerable people from hate crimes, but this is not a hate crime, and makes a mockery of people facing real discrimination and fear.

On the plus side, I may move to Surrey; clearly its ridiculously safe if the police have all that time to investigate this!

OP posts:
LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 17:52

Having an opinion based on the actions, fact, statements and policy of a charity and the head of said charity and stating said opinion publicly is not a hate crime either.

You're right, it's not a hate crime to have an opinion.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
It is though if you tip that over into harassment of someone because of who they are, publish their previously unknown inside their head opinion and use it to either harass, other, demean, incite fear or hate, etc....
that's when it changes into a hate crime. Any of those.
You might not like it, but it's true.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 17:54

I'm not doing anything again, just stating calling a rapist a rapist on Twitter wouldn't be a hate crime, but deliberately harassing a transperson would be.

and Caroline Farrow, the subject of this thread, was NOT doing this and I wish you would acknowledge that fact.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 17:55

and Caroline Farrow, the subject of this thread, was NOT doing this and I wish you would acknowledge that fact

I know she wasn't. I never said she was. So I do acknowledge that?
It was someone else who brought up the rapist comparable, not me. I was just replying to it.

sackrifice · 22/03/2019 17:56

It is though if you tip that over into harassment of someone because of who they are, publish their previously unknown inside their head opinion and use it to either harass, other, demean, incite fear or hate, etc....

She stated a fact that was made public by the person themselves.

It wasn't a secret, she made videos and published them herself - with her and the childn's grandmother laughing about the size of her child's penis after she gave him illegal drugs to shrink it.

You really are defending the indefensible here.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 17:58

Sorry, just realised that it could be read two ways what you said - you weren't referring to the rapist bit. Apologies if not.
Caroline had tweets reported. So as an action of that, if they are deemed hateful, actions would be taken.
If not, nothing would be done. So all good.
That's the bit people don't seem to see.

sackrifice · 22/03/2019 17:59

Calling a rapist a rapist on Twitter isn't a hate crime though, so that isn't even comparable

Calling a child abuser a child abuser on Twitter is though?

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 18:00

You're right, it's not a hate crime to have an opinion.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
It is though if you tip that over into harassment of someone because of who they are, publish their previously unknown inside their head opinion and use it to either harass, other, demean, incite fear or hate, etc....
that's when it changes into a hate crime. Any of those.
You might not like it, but it's true

I have NO idea what point you are trying to make with that post LimeKiwi.

I am totally flummoxed by this: publish their previously unknown inside their head opinion and use it????? Whose previously unknown inside their head opinion?

You are never going to accept that Caroline Farrow committed no crime, hate, harassment or otherwise, are you? Why not?

sackrifice · 22/03/2019 18:00

Caroline had tweets reported. So as an action of that, if they are deemed hateful, actions would be taken. If not, nothing would be done. So all good.

Yeah that's how the police work, it's why rapes are always followed up and investigated and the rapists are always given suitable sentences.

Oh hang on...

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:03

Hate crime -

homophobic comments
racist comments
transphobic comments

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:08

I am totally flummoxed by this: publish their previously unknown inside their head opinion and use it????? Whose previously unknown inside their head opinion?

As in, if it stays in your head, it's still just a thought, isn't it? You can think what the hell you like in there. There's no thought police.
If you suddenly published it, used it to harass or other, then it becomes something else.

I mean, someone for example might privately think that gay people shouldn't get married. If they started expressing that view to gay people though, they're entitled to their opinion but it wouldn't make it any less homophobic a view.
Same if somebody privately thought trans people were a bloke in a dress - start doing it to harass, tell them that's what they are constantly - it'd be transphobic.

THAT'S what I meant.

sackrifice · 22/03/2019 18:09

transphobic comments

It is not transphobic to state facts that a woman castrated her child.

Transphobic would be to say you hate the child because they are trans.

Massive difference and your leap to her defence shows why the likes of Dr Julia Long have to attend talks to ask serious questions about the lobbying and how it is considering safeguarding children. Particularly when given by a woman who arranged to have her child's genitals removed.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 18:14

No, I wasn't referring to the rapist bit I was referring to this:

but deliberately harassing a transperson would be

and Caroline Farrow has not and was not doing this.

Caroline had tweets reported.

Maliciously. Caroline Farrow was not told what the tweets were, Police told her she was reported for 'misgendering' SG's child which, as we have established in NOT a crime. The actual content of the tweets supplied by SG and aired on the BBC whilst the Police were still investigating the 'crime' weren't criminal either.

Neither Susie Green nor Mermaids want or welcome any scrutiny of them or their actions and consequently are trying to shut down any criticism by invoking criminal investigations on spurious grounds and the Police are abusing their powers and eroding public faith in their impartiality by cravenly dancing to their tune.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:20

Police told her she was reported for 'misgendering' SG's child which, as we have established in NOT a crime

Only if not to deliberately target or harass someone. It would be then.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 18:27

Which, again, is not what happened here.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 18:35

Lime, why do you keep referring to hypotheticals, ' only if' etc Can you not focus on this situation?

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:37

I was referring directly to something someone asked, Jessica.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:50

Meant to say as well that I have focused on this situation when someone asked upthread that too - I said, they'll get reported, if they're not found to be hateful, or the police drops it, then that's all good.
I also answered when someone asked what on earth could be wrong with any of the tweets or why they could have ever been reported in the first place.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 18:50

I was making the point LimeKiwi that the Police could NOT investigate for the the crime of 'misgendering' as there is no such thing so the whole thing started off on a totally false premise.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 18:52

I was making the point LimeKiwi that the Police could NOT investigate for the the crime of 'misgendering' as there is no such thing

There's not if it's a genuine mistake, but there is if you were doing it maliciously and repeatedly. Then it would become a thing. As it'd be a hate crime towards transpeople.

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 18:55

if they're not found to be hateful, or the police drops it, then that's all good. But on this situation, Caroline was asked to come to the police station for questioning. Thats not all good at all. They should never have rung her at all.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 18:59

For the millionth time it would be investigated as a Hate Crime NOT misgendering.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 19:00

But on this situation, Caroline was asked to come to the police station for questioning. Thats not all good at all. They should never have rung her at all

So things shouldn't get reported then? Someone did see it as transphobic/harassing/prejudiced towards transpeople, otherwise it wouldn't have been reported in the first place.
People report, and then they get duly questioned to ascertain if a crime has taken place.
What was said in the tweets upthread were pretty inflammatory to be fair. Which is why they'll have been reported.

LimeKiwi · 22/03/2019 19:02

For the millionth time it would be investigated as a Hate Crime NOT misgendering.

That's just playing about with words though - yes, you're right, it would be investigated as a hate crime because the misgendering in that case would be part of that!

JessicaWakefieldSVH · 22/03/2019 19:10

What was said in the tweets upthread were pretty inflammatory to be fair. No, they were accurate and as has been said so many times, based on publicly available facts, about a person in charge of a children's charity. people report all sorts of things, it does not always result in a phone call from police asking them to come in for questioning. There was no crime committed, no need for a phone call because the tweets presented do not equate to any crime. Susie Green doesn't decide what is illegal. Misgendering is NOT A CRIME.

RedDogsBeg · 22/03/2019 19:18

Which is why the Police should have stated clearly and unequivocally what crime Caroline Farrow was being investigated for. They threatened to arrest her for a crime you cannot commit, there is no crime of misgendering on the Statute Book, therefore there is no power of arrest for it.

If the Police are too lazy or blinkered to get their facts right before starting an investigation how on earth you come to the conclusion that it's all good I have no idea.

Things should be reported but reported accurately, looked into properly in light of the LAW and dealt with accordingly.

Nothing in any of Caroline Farrow's tweets breaks any law and the complainant should have been told that without Caroline ever having been contacted.