AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

[longwayoff]

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

Nothing has divided the nation like Brexit. Poll tax riots, miners strikes, it was all against the govt - easier to have a common enemy. We don't want to be pitted against our neighbours, friends or family but this is what Brexit is doing to us

The Miners' Strike split families and communities in those parts of the country directly affected, the national rifts over Brexit will take decades to heal - if they ever do.

Oh here are the Brexitteers doing the 'oh you're so horrid to us, you guys just don't understand why Brexit will bring us ALL the benefits but we won't tell you what they are, and fuck the GFA and anyway, you're all Londoners anyway, and the rise of the far right is all your fault because you're not nice.'

So much damage has already been done - and the country is toxic right now, so many jobs going, economy shrinking, trust in politicians gone, European friends gone, in just two and a half years: Whatever happens next will be shit - but once again, as a remain voter, I must accept that that is all down to me.

Maldives2006 in my view they are the ability to set ones own national agenda based on priorities and cultural needs. So, for example, the ability to award a contract to a british company not because they are the cheapest, most efficient etc but because you know that by doing this you are supporting communities in those areas.

So many things have been blamed by our government over the years on "the EU" that coming out will ensure it is them and them alone that are held accountable for various failures.

I don't want an EU superstate with common VAT, taxation and a common defence policy. I have read the Beyond 2020 documents and others from the EU about future integration, removal of vetos etc and I don't like them.

Helmet why's it all down to you? Who is blaming you?

Helmet why's it all down to you? Who is blaming you?

It was a joke. My conscience is clear.

I might be a remoaner, (!) living in a London bubble! (I'm not) who is too young to know competition at school! (I'm not) or who lacks resilience! (ha) and all the other little jibes from a poster who can't stand intolerance (!) but at least I didn't bring this on.

Helmetbymidnight

but at least I didn't bring this on.

Neither did those that voted leave.

Try to see the cause instead of the symptom, some (@rufus ok last time I promise) people are almost there.

I also cant remember ever seeing such a level of intolerance and inability to respect the views of others.
The problem is, mummymeister, this isn't just a difference of opinion or political view. Almost half of voters are unwillingly having their rights stripped from them along with their EU citizenship. This is upsetting them. I'm not sure Leavers understand this. Furthermore, this half of the population has been more or less ignored since June 2016 and has been expected to swallow all the 'will of the people' nonsense, as if they are not 'the people' as well. The referendum was divisive in itself, but the aftermath has made this worse.

No, I don't blame leave voters - I do blame Brexiteers.

I'm not sure Leavers understand this. Furthermore, this half of the population has been more or less ignored since June 2016 and has been expected to swallow all the 'will of the people' nonsense,

Look at the areas where most leavers come from, then re-access this "more or less ignored since June 2016 and has been expected to swallow all the 'will of the people' nonsense,"

Do you really understand so little of what has gone on and why so many people voted the way that they did?

Helmetbymidnight
No, I don't blame leave voters - I do blame Brexiteers.

A point worth listening to IMO.

I agree twofingers.

twofingers - the politicians who were charged with interpreting and carrying out the will of the people have ignored those that voted remain. This has been happening in general elections for years and the kind of "soak the rich until they bleed" or "all people on benefits should be at work" attitudes have just persisted with no real challenge.

I can understand the anger and frustration at losing some of the benefits of the EU - not sure if I would agree with the word citizenship but if that's how you feel then that is how you feel.

the fuss should have been made before Article 50 was triggered. good politicians should have got together and said "right that's the result, what does it mean" but they didn't. Like sheep they all (almost all) voted to trigger Article 50 with no plan in place. We vote politicians to have the plans and to work for our benefit but to a man/woman they haven't done this.

I really don't know what the answer to all of this is now. If we come out remainers have legitimate concerns. if we stay in Brexit voters will be furious. I said before, I don't see the divisions over this being healed in my lifetime.

Will you also ask those who voted for Corbyn if they got what they wished? And Blair? Any politician in fact? No one could know quite how this would go...

Well you’ll be able to tell me then!!

take a little trip out of the cities

I dont live in a city

Is it only city living remain voters that get to go on the trip? I feel like I'm missing out on the trip

No one could know quite how this would go...

Oh I think most people could see very early on that this was going to be an absolute shitfest when it became evident that no one had a plan in place for leaving.

As we’re always being told this is a once in a lifetime vote that has to be delivered it’s hardly the same as voting for a government which you can get to do every few years and get rid of the ones who have turned out not to be a good choice

Try to see the cause instead of the symptom, some (@rufus ok last time I promise) people are almost there

Oohhh no dont stop

I figure tha there are two of us so far...im sure we can persuade others to come to the dark side!!!

I do agree with most (not quite all) of what you've said above, mummy, but don't think you should underestimate the removal of people's rights. In particular, younger people, like my DC, have always considered themselves to be European. You are taking that status away from them, stripping them of FOM and many other rights and.

Its the constant referencing that I am stopping, I am going to continue to make sure that I put "some" in there.

boney

Oh thats a relief

I should have known...there are some lovely posters on these threads

And some complete and utter twats

But some lovely ones

It's real problem that the referendum (and the entire issue) really had (if we had to have it at all - I didn't vote for it) to be so binary.

There's really only any point in leaving the EU if we really leave it - and the problem with that is it really does remove all the things the 48% hold dear.

It's very difficult - and I am reminded of the fact that I've voted for something other than the government we actually got in most of the elections I have voted in - and in most cases I've been in the majority in that sense. However the referendum is not held every five years so I understand that remainers feel they have been ignored and cast adrift. It is really hard to see a fair way to do this (assuming it needed to be done at all). Setting the bar at 60% would have had some people complaining if more than 50% had voted Leave.

I think ideas around ‘opinions’ are at the heart of this. People have lost sight of the distinction between an opinion about something where there can be a range of views eg I hate rice pudding/rice pudding is ok/rice pudding is fantastic and opinion about things which are actually facts, eg whether the earth is flat or not. In the first instance, everyone’s opinion is valid and should be respected. In the second I’m damned if I’ll respect the view of someone wilfully ignoring the facts because it’s their ‘opinion’ the world is flat. Their opinion is wrong. It’s provably wrong. They don’t get to have it respected.
Opinions like ‘the EU is bad because it forces loads of laws on us’ is in the second category. Only 13.2% of our laws have anything to do with Brussels (including just mentions or definitions) and most of those we voted for.

@cardibach
Voting Leave is not the same as believing the earth is flat. It is true some bogus statistics have been flying around on both sides, but the essential point is that in your example, any percentage would be too high in my estimation - that’s an opinion. Mine differs from yours even though we agree on the statistic you gave.