AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

[longwayoff]

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

barring a few voted to trigger Article 50. if they felt so anti Brexit why did they do this?

Well from what I remember there was a feeling that they had to because it was what people had voted for. That it would be undemocratic not to. Also a fear that if they didn't there would be real civil unrest. Voting for or against Brexit cut across party lines, so it wasn't as if the Government was Leave and the Opposition was Remain, there were lots of different groups of MPs wanting different things and MPs have to consider what their constituencies want as well as what they personally believe in.. And probably MPs thought that two years should be enough time to find a deal that would be more or less acceptable in the UK and in the EU.

I don't think anyone predicted it would be this much of a mess. I certainly didn't. I thought Theresa May would negotiate a deal to leave - probably not a very good deal but hey ho - and the conservative party wouldn't like it much but they would line up behind her (because that's what they usually do) and we'd
be out on whatever deal it was. How wrong I was!

I also thought that giving Parliament a veto on any deal would stop Theresa May doing anything too mad. I didn't realise that giving Parliament have a veto on any deal meant that the only outcome that wouldn't be vetoed was no deal at all. Oopsie.

The petition (full of people who aren't on the register of electors, don't pay tax or live in this country) is fuelling that feeling as well.

There are bound to be some but I doubt it's "full" of them. The majority are probably genuine, you can tell because most of the signatories so far come from Remain areas (there are heatmaps), and the petition demands a postcode so they should be from the UK. It might be people saying those things about the petition in order to fuel suspicion, rather than the other way round, I don't know. What the petition heatmaps really seem to show is that most people aren't changing their minds. And if I was in government I for one wouldn't do a second referendum unless I was darned sure there had been a huge swing one way or the other. Because as you say it's all so divisive.

LaurieMarlow - if you are asking people to take responsibility for their own actions then your comments about "voting for X factor" are pretty irresponsible wouldn't you say?

of course I wasn't voting for X factor. I voted leave, for sound reasons and I expect to leave. I take responsibility for that. I am not responsible for :

1. MP's triggering Article 50 when they didn't want to leave
2. MP's not carrying out their election promises
3. The EU fuelling the fire of the remainers in its speeches last night.
4. building a hard border in NI (no one, no one is going to put up a border here)

Amarylis - look across these threads. someone on another thread signing in 20 different names/postcodes. sorry, this petition has zero credibility.

Mummymiester you are responsible for all of those things.

This is what you voted for.

Own it.

"own it"
loving the nonsense statements as ever

I voted to leave and this is not what I voted for or wanted.

The thing that really made my mind up to vote leave, was the VAT issue over sanitary products.

The United Kingdom has levied a value-added tax on sanitary products since it joined the European Economic Community in 1973. This rate was reduced to 5% specifically for sanitary products in 2000 with lobbying from Member of Parliament Dawn Primarolo saying that this reduction was "about fairness, and doing what we can to lower the cost of a necessity."[10] This is the lowest rate possible under the European Union's value added tax law, which as of 2015 does not allow zero rates.

Other countries do not charge VAT on these essential products but because of EU law the UK cannot follow suit.

Well you should own it.

This is what you voted for when you voted leave.

"Nonsense statements" bit like you calling me racist, I see that post still stands.

Laughably poor points again Moo.

your comments about "voting for X factor" are pretty irresponsible wouldn't you say?

Not at all, that seems to be the level of thought many leavers gave it. I’m not in a position to say if that refers to you.

I agree you aren’t responsible for the shit show that the Tories are treating us to at the minute. However, what thought did you give to the process of leaving? You must have known that extrication was going to be difficult.

building a hard border in NI (no one, no one is going to put up a border here)

And as for this, assuming you wanted to leave the Single market (though correct me if I’m wrong) then you should have understood the border implications. This is not just an EU issue, WTO rules de facto require a hard border. So yes, you need to own this. What’s your proposed solution btw?

The thing that really made my mind up to vote leave, was the VAT issue over sanitary products.

Fuck me, really?

I don’t see anyone saying that the EU is perfect, but you really voted to make the country poorer, jeopardise peace in NI, put the country in a weaker position internationally because of sanitary product VAT?

I do "own it" whatever that is supposed to mean in real life.
I also "take responsibility"
And yes, your comment is still there where ( among many of your other comments ) you very much imply that leavers are racists: but I'm a big girl, I can cope.

Such a big girl you reported it and complained.

My critique was that the leave campaign was racist, and is true.

Thanks.

yeah, right. you've said so repeatedly ( and it's still bollocks)

Not at all.

You've yet to produce a convincing argument otherwise.,

No. I voted to leave. I didn't vote to extend the leave date. I didn't vote for my vote to apparently not be worthy of being listened to. I didn't vote to have another vote. I voted to leave. I just (stupidly) thought the mps would be professional enough to accept the majority leave verdict and work on the leave deal, rather than squabbling like children.

You've yet to produce a convincing argument otherwise
otherwise to what? to being racist? Careful now , you're in danger of being overt

Amarylis - look across these threads. someone on another thread signing in 20 different names/postcodes. sorry, this petition has zero credibility.

I need a link as I haven't seen what "someone on another thread" might have said. Anyone trying to spam a govt petition website would need 20 email addresses as well as 20 different names and postcodes. So it's not totally impossible but it's not something many people would do either. The petition has about as much credibility as any other.

One poster on a different thread was actively hoping (quite gleefully) that those who voted leave would suffer immensely if we leave (they were talking about lack of meds and hoping it would affect leavers most, etc). I just don't understand that mindset, and seeing so much of it lately worries me about the direction the world is going in.

Yes, I struggle to understand the mindset here:

One group of people don't mind medical shortages. In fact, 'bring it on!'

One group of people really don't want medical shortages.

Someone says, 'well I hope the medical shortages affect those who want them most'.

And someone else says: 'THAT is really bad. To wish medical shortages on the very people who don't give a shit about them. How dare you...'

Um, that really is quite extraordinary.

"Otherwise to what? to being racist? Careful now , you're in danger of being overt"

Not at all, still referring to the leave campaign, you've yet to construct an argument to why it wasn't racist.

Copy and paste Clav tried and failed.

"No. I voted to leave. I didn't vote to extend the leave date. I didn't vote for my vote to apparently not be worthy of being listened to. I didn't vote to have another vote. I voted to leave. I just (stupidly) thought the mps would be professional enough to accept the majority leave verdict and work on the leave deal, rather than squabbling like children."

You were warned about the difficulties that a leave vote would present, which have caused this situation.

The MPs causing the problems with leaving are leavers.

Not at all, still referring to the leave campaign, you've yet to construct an argument to why it wasn't racist
why don't you try reading the 8 billion articles all about Brexit, dating back to the campaigning and maybe you'll get your answer love

Actually, I don't wish shortages on anyone, and just because my life might be shit, I don't wish that other people's lives are worse or the same. It shouldn't be a race to the bottom.
I've gone through several periods where meds I'm on have been in short supply for lengths and it's been difficult or impossible too get hold of them. It happens quite often, ime, but I certainly don't wish it on anyone, whether they agree with me or not. Even if I feel they've made my life worse.

The MPs causing the problems with leaving are leavers
hahaha. You're really not keeping up, are you!

I remember the campaign, and linked specifically to points that backed me.

You haven't refuted anything, and the paucity of your arguments is hilarious.

OK, I refute it all. there we go

BorisBogtrotter - I fully expected it to be long and difficult. I hoped it would be, to ensure the best deal. However, TM is not being allowed to get on with it in the way she should be. She needs to be stronger in her approach but she also needs the MPs to not be petty and vote against every deal.

Currently, I am leaning towards a no deal brexit now.