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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

452 replies

longwayoff · 19/03/2019 22:35

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

OP posts:
Hazlenutpie · 22/03/2019 16:02

I voted to leave. I've pretty much stayed away from threads like this because of the unpleasantness.

I'm off from here now, as there is really no need for nastiness.

Helmetbymidnight · 22/03/2019 16:10

"I don't go on discussion threads to discuss things. How dare you! Don't ask me why I voted for you to lose your livelihood - I had the very best secret reasons."

Love Brexiteers

Windowsareforcheaters · 22/03/2019 16:20

This is my opinion. It is neither right nor wrong because its my opinion

This is the big problem. People who believe that an opinion can be expressed in a neutral way and it can't be wrong.

Of course opinions can be wrong. Of course opinions can be dangerous. Of course opinions, and acting on them by voting, can have unpleasant consequences.

Should we respect with and agree opinions can't be wrong in relation to Osama Bin Laden, Pol Pot or Saddam Hussain?

You expressed your opinion by voting. Your vote is going to have serious, negative, long term consequences for the U.K.. Your opinion and the way you expressed it may make people poorer and angry.

themoomoo · 22/03/2019 16:20

helmut erm, I don't think that was by a Leaver!

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 16:42

You expressed your opinion by voting. Your vote is going to have serious, negative, long term consequences for the U.K.. Your opinion and the way you expressed it may make people poorer and angry.

This is very much what happened to many of us during the Thatcher years - do you feel the same about people who voted for her?

Mention of Saddam etc is just ridiculous.

We had an election - a party stood on the basis of holding a referendum. That party won, and held the referendum. People voted.
It is really unreasonable to equate that with Pol Pot and Saddam and it's frankly ridiculous.

mummymeister · 22/03/2019 16:48

windows - Its not a big problem. Not if you actually read what I said. An opinion of itself cannot be either right or wrong. It can "in your opinion" be dangerous. it can have unpleasant consequences for some people. it can have unpleasant consequences for some people and wonderful outcomes for others. I do respect the views and opinions of dictators. I listen to them. I try to understand why they are saying what they do. I try to put myself in their shoes. I don't stand in front of them screaming in their face " you are wrong, you are wrong you are wrong" and expecting that that will make them change their opinions.

I didn't say anything, ANYTHING, about agreeing with me. You have a perfect right to disagree with me. I respect that. I will defend your right to disagree with me. Why wont you defend my right to disagree with you?

Staying in the EU could make people poorer and angry couldn't it?

Why do you and over remoaners persist on this and other threads with the " we are all right and you are all stupid and wrong"

Staying in the EU would have serious, negative long term consequences for the UK in my opinion.

ClaudiaApple · 22/03/2019 16:50

although I voted Remain, I'd prefer no-deal to this terrible deal that Mrs May has fudged up.

I'd compare it to leaving a nice cosy house and lifestyle (remain) to a choice between either living in a mud hut with holes in the roof (Mrs May's deal) or taking our chances on the streets of LA where you never know, you might get lucky (no deal)

Windowsareforcheaters · 22/03/2019 16:50

The comparison to dictators was to make the point that opinions can be right or wrong. Opinions are not neutral. It was not to compare Brexit to a dictatorship.

Yes absolutely many people did feel outraged by Thatcher. I absolutely feel that the people who voted for her government are responsible for some of the long term consequences of her decisions.

You are responsible for your vote, it is a serious decision and should be done with care and politicians should be held to account. I think politics is a serious business and far too many people pay it no attention because they are 'bored' but they are happy to complain when society isn't what they want.

Windowsareforcheaters · 22/03/2019 16:53

@mummymeister

"remoaners"

Any attempt to argue a point disappears when you start to call people names, especially childish slightly embarrassing names.

Shame on you. You make a detailed post and then show yourself up by using a term like that.

Rumboogie · 22/03/2019 16:55

Haven't RTFT but surely the answer is that all of the following are responsible for the current shameful dog's dinner:

  1. T May who thinks we should remain but respects the vote, however has conducted the negotiations according to her own 'damage limitation' strategy and refused to consult, largely, with her govt.

2,. P Hammond who has flatly refused throughout to release funds or consider any preparation for a 'no-deal' Brexit, so leaving us in an un-prepared shithole.

3.ERG group, only satisfied with the hardest of Brexits.

  1. So - called 'Remainer' ministers, especially A Rudd, who have been undermining T May throughout to achieve their objective of scotching Brexit.

The result being that these factions/people are not pulling together to acheive an agreed goal but constantly undermining each other.

The Tory Party should be ashamed. These individuals are putting themselves and their agendas first.

pootyisabadcat · 22/03/2019 16:55

I would love a no deal brexit, I will be fine whatever happens.

Yeah, fuck everyone else Hmm.

mummymeister · 22/03/2019 17:01

So on this and other threads I and other people who voted for Brexit (wont call them brexiteers in case it offends your sensibilities) get called racists, idiots who didn't know what we were voting for and worse yet you see fit to call ME out for using the term remoaners. And its the best you can do to knock down a cogent, non offensive post.

Instead of going on a march this weekend, those who voted to remain or who want Article 50 rescinded should take a little trip out of the cities and see what is going on in the rest of the country where the Ultra right is gaining huge amounts of support.

the London bubble as expressed on some of these threads seriously worries me because, just like in the USA, when the ultra right suddenly takes over, they will be wringing their hands wondering where this came from and how it happened.

and its threads like this and the dismissive treatment of others very valid viewpoints that will have led to it.

Of course I accept that you don't agree with my opinion and I am sure that you have very valid reasons and experiences that have formed this.

so, just in case you missed it last time, why wont you defend my right to disagree with you?

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 17:01

My point about Thatcher was that she is revered by many - a very divisive figure. Who's to say who is right? I loathed and detested the Thatcher government but I had to accept that some people thought she was right. It really isn't for me to tell them they are "wrong" it's just a different opinion.

Paradoxically in my view, it's the idea that opinions can be "right" or "wrong" that leads straight to dictatorships.

It is essential to tolerate and respect other people's views IMHO and that cannot include contenting that an opinion can be wrong.

Windowsareforcheaters · 22/03/2019 17:05

@mummymeister I was talking to you specifically. Many posters have called many people many names. Yes it happens and it is wrong.

You are I were exchanging views and I was happy to engage when you came up with the childish term remoaners. In the context of the posts being exchanged at that time it was just embarrassing and totally negates any credibility you had.

mummymeister · 22/03/2019 17:10

badlydrawnperson I completely agree. The current way of thinking of an ever growing number of people in the UK on both sides of the argument is deeply worrying.

In my local rural community on facebook groups, selling pages and other community type discussion pages its obvious in an area like mine which voted heavily to leave that the far right is speaking to a captive audience.

I am dismayed that as a country and as a society we have lost the ability to agree to disagree and seem to be just going around shouting "I'm right, I'm right, I'm right"

Over the years there have been lots of leaders and governments I didn't vote for. But, even then there are still some policies that they have brought forward that I have agreed with and thought were excellent and have said so.

we are in danger of losing our decency to each other. I hope that the weekends inevitable protests pass off peacefully as they should. I am very worried that they wont because of the sort of attitudes that I see on this and other threads.

twofingerstoEverything · 22/03/2019 17:10

It would be alarming if people didn't want to discuss the biggest change this country will have been through in decades.

Absolutely, LoudBat. I'm pretty old really - old enough to remember joining the EEC - and I've never known anything so divisive or seen such a display of parliamentary ineptitude. Why would people not be discussing this?

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 17:13

I'm just hoping that the evidence of Mumsnet isn't representative of how things are as whole. Unfortunately there seem to very few places online where people can debate the very real issues properly without it just degenerating into a slanging match (on both sides).

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 17:15

I'm pretty old really - old enough to remember joining the EEC - and I've never known anything so divisive

so I am but I think the Miner's Strike and the Cruise Missiles stuff under Thatcher came pretty close.

twofingerstoEverything · 22/03/2019 17:23

I'm not sure the Miner's strike and Cruise Missile stuff saw Joe Public pitted against Joe Public in quite the same way.

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 17:24

The Miner's strike certainly did - it split up families, for ever in some cases.

MorningsEleven · 22/03/2019 17:28

The Miners' strike was horrifically divisive.

twofingerstoEverything · 22/03/2019 17:31

I can understand that, but I don't think it divided the entire nation in the way Brexit has.

mummymeister · 22/03/2019 17:32

I think the miners strike had greatest impact within certain specific communities where it did pit family members against each other and cause life long splits. Some sections of the country barely registered it to be honest. Same as the moving of the print unions and cruise missiles.

I think that in my lifetime, I cant remember a issue which has been so divisive across the country as a whole. It dominates QT.

I also cant remember ever seeing such a level of intolerance and inability to respect the views of others. I have been on lots of marches over the years on a wide range of subjects but this is a whole new level of nastiness and line drawing. I am not entirely sure that whatever the outcome - leave, stay in, leave in a few years etc - that the country will recover from this, certainly not in my lifetime.

I do wonder if a lot of the current ways of expressing views stem from the system of "no losers" as we saw in school sports in the 80's 90's and beyond. Perhaps people younger than me are just less prepared to accept that not everyone agrees with them and they cant "win" (for want of a better word) all the time. The lack of resilience really is troubling.

Maldives2006 · 22/03/2019 17:32

What are the benefits of leaving the EU then?

themoomoo · 22/03/2019 17:33

What are the benefits of leaving the EU then
look it up, there's plenty out there