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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to ask Leavers if this is what you voted for?

452 replies

longwayoff · 19/03/2019 22:35

And if it is are you looking forward to 29th?

OP posts:
BorisBogtrotter · 22/03/2019 15:12

It isn't a simplistic certainty, its a well rounded provable opinion.

BorisBogtrotter · 22/03/2019 15:14

I would love a no deal brexit, I will be fine whatever happens.

The great wailing and gnashing of teeth from leave voters will be immensely satisfying, and they will be proved wrong once and for all.

Then we can forget them and go back to being in the EU.

fanfan18 · 22/03/2019 15:14

Remainers won't be happy until we're living in dystopia just so they can say "I told you so".

Sorry drama queens. What on earth are you going to do with your time after this just ends we carry on as normal?

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 15:17

You can't prove an opinion - you can offer reasons why it's held, but that isn't proof. Your reasoning is bound to seem "logical" and "correct" because you are only considering your own view as valid. It must be nice to be so certain you are right.

LoudBatPerson · 22/03/2019 15:18

Given the size of the defeats, they aren't all "Leave MPs" whatever that is supposed to mean. There must be significant numbers of MPs on either side of the leave/remain divide voting against the WA.

It is the content of the WA which is preventing it from being voted through, as it is not a good deal for the whole country.

The whole reason the WA is so poor, and the reason it cannot be changed, is that the negotiating stance has revolved around a set of red lines put in place to appease hard-line leavers (many of whom stand to make a great deal of cash out of a no deal Brexit).

If TM didn't need to creep around the ERG and others with similar views, the red lines could have been different/changed, and a decent withdrawal deal could be on the table, which would stand more chance of being voted through.

This is why it is leaver MPs that are causing the impasse.

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 15:19

I would love a no deal brexit, I will be fine whatever happens.

Again, it would be nice to live in your world of arrogant certainties.

BorisBogtrotter · 22/03/2019 15:19

"It must be nice to be so certain you are right."

It is.

Vindicated every time I see a leave posters reasons too.

LoudBatPerson · 22/03/2019 15:20

*Remainers won't be happy until we're living in dystopia just so they can say "I told you so".

Sorry drama queens. What on earth are you going to do with your time after this just ends we carry on as normal?*

No remainers do not want to live is a dystopia, that is a ridiculous statement.

What is the point of leaving if we will "carry on as normal"?

fanfan18 · 22/03/2019 15:22

What is the point of leaving if we will "carry on as normal"?

I meant it's not all going to be empty shelves and no medicine and people dying in the street like the media (and Remainers on MN) are trying to have us believe.

BorisBogtrotter · 22/03/2019 15:23

"Again, it would be nice to live in your world of arrogant certainties"

Oh I will, I made certain, I brexit proofed my life some months back. No debt, significant deposits of cash in other currencies, ability to move to another country sorted.

The kind of thing you'd expect from the liberal urban elite.

BorisBogtrotter · 22/03/2019 15:24

The problem is that you create strawman arguments, no one has said dystopia, they have said significant risks.

LaurieMarlow · 22/03/2019 15:26

Yes but it means so much more than VAT on one product. It's the whole ethos that the EU tells our elected UK government what we can and cannot do.

Oh my sweet lord it really is very difficult to deal with Leavers lack of understanding of these issues.

Doing trade with every single country in the 21st century involves complying with rules we don’t set ourselves. The WTO, so beloved of leavers, is chock full of rules. Every single trade deal we sign will involve complying with some rules from the other country in order to get them to agree to rules we set ourselves.

We cannot unilaterally do what we want trade wise because it’s not 1857 any more.

As for ‘no evidence’ the country will get poorer. Every single economic projection including the governments own has concluded this. We’ve already tanked the pound. Just how much evidence are you looking for? Hmm

LoudBatPerson · 22/03/2019 15:29

I meant it's not all going to be empty shelves and no medicine and people dying in the street like the media (and Remainers on MN) are trying to have us believe.

Do you genuinely believe that our shop supplies will be disrupted if we pull out of a huge chunk of our import routes, all at once at the stroke of a clock?

Where is all the stock going to come from, while emergency measures are put in place?

Yes supply levels will return to normal, it will not be the end of days, however there is likely to be significant disruption. When the stock is back in again, the prices are also likely to be higher.

Planning for a likely outcome of no deal is not being "drama queens". I dont know anyone who is saying we will enter a dystopian furture.

People have genuine (and founded) fears over supplies, particularly certain medication) if we just rip up massives amounts of trade route overnight, which a no deal will do.

To dismiss and minimise peoples fears over accessing enough food and medication for their families, because of something they voted against, is quite frankly damn right nasty.

Nesssie · 22/03/2019 15:33

LoudBatPerson what gets me is people thinking that if they are in a plane, mid air when the deal (or no deal) is done, then they won't be allowed to land and will be forced to circle the air stuck in no mans land for eternity...

badlydrawnperson · 22/03/2019 15:35

Oh I will, I made certain, I brexit proofed my life some months back. No debt, significant deposits of cash in other currencies, ability to move to another country sorted.

Ok, now I am even more baffled. You have no "skin in the game" as the Americans would say, and you are ready to clear off to another country. You never hear anything that suggests there is any point listening to Leave voters - what are you getting out of posting? Just a feeling of superiority and self-importance every time you post? It's weird.

LoudBatPerson · 22/03/2019 15:37

what gets me is people thinking that if they are in a plane, mid air when the deal (or no deal) is done, then they won't be allowed to land and will be forced to circle the air stuck in no mans land for eternity...

How many people exactly have you seen fear that?

I will say, before the EU confirmed the temporary arrangements in case of No Deal, to avoid planes being unable to fly etc. people had lots of questions, understandably regarding travel plans. However I can't say I saw anyone worried about being stuck in mid-air until the fuel ran out.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 22/03/2019 15:44

^ this is what has really surprised me about the whole thing. If the vote had been to remain, I very much doubt those who had voted leave would have reacted this way

If we are playing this game then i think that people who voted remain wouldnt have been prancing round the boards saying 'we won you oost get over it' telling people who voted leave to leave the country or calling leave voters traitors

I know its a bit of a thing on this sugject to pretend that remain and leave voters are miles apart...but we arent

Youve got shitty goady motherfucking remain voters AND leave voters

mummymeister · 22/03/2019 15:48

*There are no valid reasons for leave.

Not once in three years has one been given

All spurious, all badly thought out, knee jerk, reactionary populist twaddle.*

Boris, I voted to leave the EU because I do not want an ever closer tie or union to this organisation. I have seen the EU's future plans for Beyond 2020. I do not want to be part of a huge lumbering organisation which seeks to take away the individuality of its member states.

This is my opinion. It is neither right nor wrong because its my opinion. Why do you have such a problem with understanding this incredibly simple concept?

If in the world there only existed "right" and "wrong" then there would be no political parties, no disagreements etc. But there are. Because everyone has and is entitled to their point of view which may or may not be the same, similar or the polar opposite to mine.

do you parent in this way?

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 22/03/2019 15:53

I meant it's not all going to be empty shelves and no medicine and people dying in the street like the media (and Remainers on MN) are trying to have us believe

I was at a book club the other day, and 4 different people were talking about diffficultes in obtaining their medicine

4 different types of medication...i thought it was interesting

I also haven't seen any comments in the media or remainers about people dying in the street, its a very poor show if this is happening

Nesssie · 22/03/2019 15:53

LoudBatPerson there was a thread on that exact topic maybe a few months ago. It was utterly ridiculous and very dramatic.

Nesssie · 22/03/2019 15:55

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer mostly because we wouldn't have started a million bloody threads about the vote...

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 22/03/2019 15:57

However I can't say I saw anyone worried about being stuck in mid-air until the fuel ran out

Same here

Look i am more than happy to believe that there is hyperbole about this

But people really should see that there is dramatics and exaggeration on both sides

I really don't understand how people can read these threads and still feel they need to exaggerate/lie

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 22/03/2019 15:58

nessie

Apologies

I didnt realise that you speak for all 17.4 million leave voters

Ive never started a thread about brexit...but i am happy to support people both leave and remain who feel they should do so

Helmetbymidnight · 22/03/2019 15:59

Your view is that the loss of jobs, the stomping over the GFA, the loss of joint science and research progress, the food and medicine shortages, the upset to many lives, the damage to our unis and freedoms is worth it because you fear there *may be ever closer union even though the UK have the means to opt out of closer union.

It is just an opinion, yeah.

LoudBatPerson · 22/03/2019 15:59

mostly because we wouldn't have started a million bloody threads about the vote...

It would be alarming if people didn't want to discuss the biggest change this country will have been through in decades. It is huge, the implications are widespread and have the potential to be very damaging if it is handled incorrectly (and it is not exactly going great). Of course, there are a lot of threads about it.