Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

Pot.kettle.black, Gronky

Could you expand on that?

Having a friend, who wasn't in the position of donating their organs die, and having a family member who you are next of kin for die and you have to make the choice to donate or not, are 2 very, very different things

I'm also not minimising what you felt at the time, it's all about perspective. From mine, after they passed, they were wheeled off to be prepared for cremation, for me, that's functionally the same from my point of view as them being wheeled off for organ collection, except the latter potentially has a longer delay before the funeral. I realise this may seem callous, horrifying even but I just don't personally perceive those as differing outcomes with respect to the person who's passed away. A body, to me, is more of a reminder than a representation. I miss the person they were.

It certainly sounds like you are talking about how you think you would feel if you were NOK rather than talking about your friend?

I could, but farting in the wind would be more productive. Or teaching a dog to read. Or helping a fish to ride a bicycle. All of which, like continually trying to explain things to some who are so hard of thinking they make Pavlov's dog look like Einstein, are pointless endeavours.

Again, thanks, formerbabe, for this discussion.

pootyisabadcat you are right sometimes it isn't worth engaging.

It just enrages me when people have an opinion on something and dismiss the real, lived experience of others.

It certainly sounds like you are talking about how you think you would feel if you were NOK rather than talking about your friend?

I'm afraid I'm unclear on the question.

All of which, like continually trying to explain things to some who are so hard of thinking they make Pavlov's dog look like Einstein, are pointless endeavours.

far, far more about those doing it to try to demonstrate their moral superiority than anything else on this thread

Pot.kettle.black, Gronky.

Presented without comment.

Do you agree, from the quote above, that it sounds like you were talking about how you would feel as NOK, even though that wasn't your experience and you are simply guessing how you would feel?

Hope that clarifies.

AppleDump you wrote:

When you have lived a day in the shoes of any person waiting for their 'gift' then I'm sure you will think differently.

I've had an organ transplant I have been one of the 6500 people waiting every year for an organ.

My illness came from nowhere and I was given months to live when I got my gift. Without it my children would not have a mummy and my DH no wife. I would be dead.

My point is, don't donate YOUR organs if you don't want to. You have the choice.

You don't have have to be someone's hero like my donor was.

Was that last sneeringly judgemental sentence really necessary?

I assume that prior to your illness coming out of nowhere you were a registered organ donor and that all your family were aware of your wishes?

We are told that the problem with lack of organs available for donation is that people don't sign the ORD even though they would be happy to donate, don't speak to their families of their wishes and that the NOK being able to over-rule is an issue.

Presumed consent, in my opinion, ceases to make donation a gift, it makes it the default option and I disagree with it and if that means I won't ever be a 'hero' so be it.

Do you agree, from the quote above, that it sounds like you were talking about how you would feel as NOK, even though that wasn't your experience and you are simply guessing how you would feel

I object to your description of 'simply guessing' but, in essence, yes. Sorry for not being more specific, I was talking about how I believe I would have dealt with being the NoK for my friend (as opposed to my child).

I was talking about how I believe I would have dealt with being the NoK for my friend

So you are guessing then?

Thanks for clarifying.

Presumed consent, in my opinion, ceases to make donation a gift, it makes it the default option and I disagree with it and if that means I won't ever be a 'hero' so be it.

The justification given by the consultation was that 80% of those surveyed agreed with being an organ donor.

So you are guessing then

Again, I rather object to the implications of the term because 'guess', to me, implies little consideration or foundation.

I believe anyone who opts out shouldn't be allowed an organ.
If you're not willing to contribute then you shouldn't get to benefit.

Like a bring and buy sale, for kidneys.

I was talking about how I believe I would have dealt with being the NoK for my friend

You said it yourself, how you believe you would have dealt with it. Guessing, because you didn't actually deal with it, and although you may have considered how you think you would have felt, you have no real foundation to base that on since being vaguely near a situation is nothing like being smack bang in the middle of it.

Now maybe you have admitted that you're guessing, hopefully we can stop this part of the debate and move on.

The justification given by the consultation was that 80% of those surveyed agreed with being an organ donor.

Still don't agree with it, instead of changing to presumed consent why not find out why that 80% hadn't bothered to sign the ORD?

A pp very early in the thread made some very good suggestions as to how to increase the number of people signing the ORD all of which are far preferable to presumed consent.

The justification given by the consultation was that 80% of those surveyed agreed with being an organ donor.

See that worries me. People self declare all sorts of shit they have no intention of following through on. 80% of people would probably say they are in favour of volunteering their time to pick litter because it makes them feel good to say so or they mean that they are in favour of other people volunteering. It doesn't mean they just forgot to pick up a bin liner and get their hands dirty.

But many of that 80%won’t know the realities of donation. We certainly didn’t. I was very pro until I lived through it.

They told us hearing is the last thing to go and to keep talking. So as he died we all held his hands and moving face and talked to him. We continued after. I am horrified to think we were that close to not being able to do this, that his last moments would have been in a theatre being dissected. That his and our suffering would have also been prolonged to allow this to happen. It doesn’t happen after you hit the morgue but long before when you are hooked up to be kept alive.6 months on we are all still grieving but there is comfort in that he had a peaceful comfortable death in the end with us all there. I shudder to think how we’d be feeling if he hadn’t been rejected to donate.

Another thing that horrified me was the lack of any counselling or support during the process. You get zilch, all they are interested in is the organs, not you. The consultants trying to keep him alive were fab and uncomfortable re asking about donation but they then have a job to do trying to keep others alive so hand you over to a person who just makes phone calls.

Nobody had a right to other people organs and nobody had the right to make grieving people suffer even more. I applaud those who do donate (after all the info) but at the end of the day their relations will be the ones actually living with the process.

The didn't declare that they wanted to be an organ donor either, the phrasing used suggests the question asked was, "Are you in favour of organ donation?" Which is a different question to, "Are you willing to donate an organ?"

Further, it gives no indication what information was given to those people completing the survey. There have been lots of people who think organ donation happens once you are dead, others think that you make the decision and then your loved one is wheeled off immediately not knowing that the family then face a battery of questions and delays and potentially having to say goodbye to their loved ones four times to be told that it's not happening...where people who ticked the box in the affirmative told all this information prior?

The media talk about it as if it is donating blood regularly. The coverage of it in the news has annoyed me. "Hundreds of lives will be saved."

Think about that one.

Unless it's an altruistic kidney donation to a family member, there usually has to be a death before organs are donated. So on the societal "saving lives" level, we'd be lucky to break even.

Doctors are getting better at saving people after accidents and conditions than may give rise to organs being available. There are already actually very few organs which even become available, which might be a bad thing for those needing a transplant, but a good thing for those whose lives have been saved after a terrible accident.

I'm glad family members still have to be asked, I would be against compulsory state harvesting of organs.

Also I felt that having to deal with all this during the single most awful time of my life was incredibly barbaric.

We were in a daze and hadn’t slept or eaten for hours, ours lived had fallen in. It was just wrong.

It was wrong N0rdic

I left out the word automatic on my longer post.

 N0rdicStar

The justification given by the consultation was that 80% of those surveyed agreed

the phrasing used suggests the question asked was, "Are you in favour of organ donation?" Which is a different question to, "Are you willing to donate an organ?"

If the second quote is right, I'd say that's a classic illustration of creating a survey to get the answer you're looking for - hardly the first time it would have happened

Another thing that horrified me was the lack of any counselling or support during the process. You get zilch, all they are interested in is the organs, not you

I'm extremely sorry, NOrdic - and for anyone else who's been through this trauma - but sadly this doesn't surprise me at all. Yet again we see a complete disconnect between assurances and the reality - though no doubt with the usual parroting of "lessons will be learned"

@RedDogsBeg yes I have been on the donor register since I passed by driving test at 17 and my family have always been aware of my wishes. It was discussed even further when my family member donated his organs 15 years ago.

You can do what you want with your organs if you want to donate tell your family if you don't Opt Out and still tell your family.

It's that simple!