Donor consent law is being changed...

[flirtygirl]

Aibu to have expected more information before they changes the law, did they do a consultation? I feel miffed that it is now going to be deemed consent and you have to opt out.

But what if the system is down or the opt out which is digital and online, did not get stored properly? What about when you move and change address? Do you have to tell every medical practitioner manually as well?

There is no info it seems on what this will mean. If you have info or any helpful links please let me know, thanks

It's as though people feel that just because they feel they have a worthy cause they have license to invoke any kind of legislation or emotive moralising to achieve the aim without any regard for unintended fall-out

Very well put

Hello!

The NHS Blood and Transplant team got in touch with us after seeing this thread. They have written a guest post to explain what this law change will mean.

Do have a look and feel free to post any questions. A member of their team will be back to answer questions.

If you would rather your kid died than accept a donor organ then you can opt out. If you'd be willing to take one to save your child's life, then you opt in. Everyone is someone's family member.

If you would rather your kid died than accept a donor organ then you can opt out. And another member of the no empathy no compassion fan club I see.

Fortunately for the hard of thinking on this thread that’s not how the law works. And actually to think that it does shows a lack of basic intelligence. After all, only 5000 people a year die in circumstances meaning they would be suitable to donate an organ. Given the population is around the 60 million mark, do you know just how unlikely it is you will ever actually be able to donate an organ? And yet you believe that need to receive an organ should be based on something you will probably never actually be in a position to do. Do you know just how absolutely brainless and thick that sounds?

and there we go again with the "you can't have if you won't give" rhetoric with a side helping of emotive "letting children die" thrown in for good measure.

I'll say it again - there are already people who have received organs who were never on the ODR even when they were in a position to be on it. Somehow those of you criticising people for opting out never judge or aim you ire at those recipients do you?

If you would rather your kid died than accept a donor organ then you can opt out. If you'd be willing to take one to save your child's life, then you opt in. Everyone is someone's family member.

Eh? Opting out applies to adults, you do it for yourself, it has FA to do with your family members and people under 18 are in an exempted group. DUH! At little btw for you, too, about how the law works, parents who try to block life saving treatment for their children when the child is under the age of capacity to decide are often taken to court so the child can receive the treatment because fortunately the law doesn't allow for biased harpies to run it.

What about if someone's child dies and in the worst possible time of their life they want just a little more time, to be there for their last breath, to be able to hold them as they go, and they cannot bear to donate their organs.

Should they be unable to receive a transplant in the future should the need arise too?

The NHS work on medical need only, not supposed morals and values and some perceived list of right and wrong. This is exactly as it should be.

Break, people have a very romantic idea of what organ donation entails and no clue how it feels to lose a child .

You know what? The pro organ donation morons on this thread are actually making me re-think about whether I would want my organs donated. You see it goes both ways. The pro donation lot are of the view that they wouldn’t want organs donated to someone who wouldn’t donate theirs in the same situation. However, I think that I wouldn’t want my organs donated to anyone who actually believes that someone not willing to donate in the unlikely event of their death in the correct circumstances should be allowed to die or watch their child die or accept that their loved one’s body is an empty shell and they should tick a box without consideration to the grief they are going to be left with.

Clearly not one of the pro donation idiots on this thread has lost a loved one or needed to receive an organ. Because as much as they believe that if you’d seen your child die waiting for an organ or if you had been in a situation where you were so ill that you needed an organ, if they’d actually experienced that they wouldn’t be spouting the absolutely toxic bile that they are spouting on this thread.

Let’s think of a scenario shall we? Let’s imagine that someone needs an organ. But they’re not on the register so they wouldn’t be entitled to one. And then imagine they die because that organ fails, but their family agrees for their other organs to be donated. Would you be happy to receive one? An organ from someone who died because they weren’t willing to donate an organ and therefore had been removed from the allowed list? You’d gloat would you? Knowing that someone had died because they were too selfish to tick a box? Really? Would that give you a sense of fulfilment? Because if it would that says a lot more about you than it does about them.

NoCauseRebel, this isn't specifically directed at you but there's been an awful lot of anger in this thread (from both sides) along the lines of clearly you've never been in x scenario because, if you had, you'd only be capable of thinking/accepting y. People react very differently to the same or similar scenarios, particularly when they are scenarios which engender strong emotions. It's VU to expect someone to have a particular set of feelings in response to a specific event or to claim they can't have experienced said event because they don't have said feelings.

pootyisabadcat That's very true.

The people wanting donation at any cost have a very abstract idea of what the process is like and how it feels and base their views on that.

They are then downright offensive to those who may also have an abstract view of what it's like and base their views on that too.

The lack of intelligence applied to this is tiresome isn't it NoCause and pooty? All you hear is ridiculous, hyperbolic, emotive rhetoric.

According to the 'logic' used on here by some, the parents of every child who has received an organ transplant MUST have been on the ORD themselves well before their child needed a transplant, every adult who has received one MUST have been on the ORD themselves well before they needed one, utterly ludicrous.

The inference that a parent must be willing to donate their childs' organs (how would you monitor this?) in order for their child to be eligible for receipt is utterly chilling.

For those who asked, yes, I believe the NOK will still be consulted even if their loved one has opted out. I think the most important thing is to let our families know our wishes as they, ultimately, will be the ones having to make the decision.

My eyes have been well and truly opened hearing the stories on here. I can totally understand a person wanting to be with their child while they take their final breath.

@Gronky you’re wrong. Because while I can absolutely concede that if someone had watched a loved one die while waiting for an organ they might feel very strongly about the need for further donations and the way to make those happen, I do not believe that one single person who has stood by and literally been there while a loved one died would spout the kind of talk such as that a body is just an empty shell, that they’re dead and will know no different and that someone who didn’t agree to donate their organs should be prepared to sit and watch their child die. There is absolutely no way on earth that would happen unless the individual is entirely devoid of empathy in which case they would have felt nothing over the loss of their loved one,and their opinion would be null and void.

Every single person on this thread who has lost a loved one has spoken of their absolute raw emotion and grief over that loss. So while I might not be able to say that everyone feels that way, I can certainly know what kind of person doesn’t feel that way, and that’s not the kind of person whose opinion deserves airtime.

the absolutely vile offensive comments directed at bereaved parents on this thread wouldn’t have been tolerated anywhere else on mn, and I’d go so far as to say that because of the pro donation comments on this thread it’s probably time that it needs to go.

And yes, on the thread linked to further up it does state that the NOK will still be consulted. Therefore I stand by my decision and will be opting out. My organs will still be donated in the event they’re eligible, but my body absolutely will not be harvested at the behest of any government law.

the absolutely vile offensive comments directed at bereaved parents on this thread wouldn’t have been tolerated anywhere else on mn

Indeed, and all in the name of being "morally better".

A young boy called Max campaigned for this law. He was in desperate need of a heart transplant. He was very sick for a long time. If it wasn’t for the brave actions of Kiera’s (donor) parents he would probably have died!

The truth is there aren’t enough donors on the register. By making people opt out you are asking them to consider their wishes re organ donation. There probably aren’t many people out there who think about it seriously enough to register. Maybe they will once the law has changed???

Very well said NoCause.

These vile comments and offensive rhetoric by those pro organ donation have entirely the opposite effect to the one they wanted, they do the cause far more harm than good.

By making people opt out you are asking them to consider their wishes re organ donation.

Oh really? Asking people to opt-out is the active informed choice, is it? Rather than the flimsy principle of informed consent and actively signing up?

I do not believe that one single person who has stood by and literally been there while a loved one died would spout the kind of talk such as that a body is just an empty shell

I'm very sorry that you're unable to comprehend people processing events and drawing conclusions in a different way from how you feel. My experience of a close friend passing is that their body is divorced from the spirit animating it once they have gone (though I'm not an especially spiritual person, I don't actively believe in an afterlife, for example). To me, their body was an artefact of their life, closer than their personal belongings but in much the same category. I felt great sadness at their loss but, had their organs been viable for donation (and my opinion had legal bearing), I would have seen their burial or cremation to be a great waste, just as I would have seen the burial or incineration of their sketchbook to be a great waste, compared to sharing it with others.

I believe you're confusing not affixing the emotions felt with their loss to their physical remains with not feeling those emotions at all.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions

A close friend then. Yep. Says it all right there. I'm stunned by a lot of what I've read on here, absolutely floored.

The correct people have the correct information at the correct time.

Not always and especially not in the case of blood donation or blood products.

transplant NHS spokesperson. - what methods are in place to make sure the SEX of a blood donor or recipient is known and recorded correctly in order to avoid sex based adverse effects (given that, for example, death rates are higher in men who receive blood from women who have ever been pregnant and that such women’s blood can potentially contain various antibodies)?

Are the team aware of the vastly higher HIV rates in transwomen? How is this reconciled with restrictions on blood donation from men who have sex with men if these donors are recorded as women - no true sexual history can be obtained if sex is recorded incorrectly. Thus is it true that a high risk population is donating with fewer restrictions simply by declaring gender? If so how can this be justified?

Thanks.

Although I'm sorry about the loss of your friend Gronky it's not the same experience.

You were not NOK and you didn't have to decide whether to donate organs or not.

You truly do not know how you will feel until you're in the position of having your child there, and having to decide whether to donate their organs. There is not a hope in hell you would just shrug and start on about their body being divorced from the spirit animating it