To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

[GardenVariety]

Is anyone actually surprised that this has happened? It is shocking and sickening, but let’s face it, it has been so acceptable for so long to vilify muslims, to abuse muslims, to attack muslims - politicians have made careers out of this. Is it any wonder that yet another white supremacist has murdered muslims and has received praise for doing so by keyboard warriors on various platforms.

I (and most muslims in the West) have been dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 by being held responsible for every terrorist atrocity. Dealing with knee-jerk reactions and responses became the norm for me since then. Every terror attack, grooming ring, extremist preacher became my responsibility to explain, condemn and apologise for. I was asked why muslims don’t put double-page ads in the paper to apologise and condemn. I was told that I shouldn’t be surprised at the hostility towards muslims because the few give everyone a bad name.

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me. Will they explain why white people do this? Will they give me a full breakdown of his manifesto, explain each name listed on the white terrorist’s guns, explain the choice of music on the video, explain why he filmed it, explain why he had so much support (white terrorist supported by other whites, therefore all whites must be terrorists) and take out ads in national papers apologising for being white. After all it was a white person who did this and just like all muslims were held accountable, will all whites be held accountable too?

The only thing we have in common with white people in NZ is the colour of our skin

Actually it’s not. The British & Irish colonised NZ, we’re part of the commonwealth as a result of that. So start by learning your history, acknowledging you are the recipient of an imperialist regime, that you have benefitted from colonisation and learn about the cultures your ancestors tried to destroy.

If you’re on this thread, which started because of what happened in NZ, surely you’re here to discuss NZ too.

How has a thread about white supremacists become "but what about the white people and how we feel"?

Where it become that?

People are making points, other people are challenging and or debating them.

So start by learning your history, acknowledging you are the recipient of an imperialist regime, that you have benefitted from colonisation and learn about the cultures your ancestors tried to destroy.

How far back do we take that?

You seem to be doing exactly what some people do when there are attacks by Muslims i.e. holding everyone of the same race or religion accountable

I’m holding New Zealander’s accountable for doing nothing about many years of racism, for ignoring it or perpetuating white supremacy by being intolerant to learning about Māori and Polynesian culture, and for many many acts of outright racism that happen every day.

You can’t compare religion to white supremacy IMO. White people are privileged, both in the UK & NZ. Muslims are not in either of those countries, nor do they hold power or the power to oppress Māori in their own country.

How far back do we take that?

As far back as it necessary.

How far back do we take that?

What? Learning history? Acknowledging how your ‘empire’ colonised other nations? Have you given NZ back yet? Have Māori like me been given my lands back? No and no. My GRANDMOTHER had her land taken, that’s not that far back is it?! What’s your issue, really? I was asked what white people can practically do, and I answered. Ignore it if you wish, carry on in ignorance. If you want to know why people like me feel the way we do, how white supremacy can fester and turn into this horrid act, then learn.

10IAR Thank you, you get it.

Actually it’s not. The British & Irish colonised NZ, we’re part of the commonwealth as a result of that. So start by learning your history, acknowledging you are the recipient of an imperialist regime, that you have benefitted from colonisation and learn about the cultures your ancestors tried to destroy.

I know my history thanks and I think it completely irrelevant to whether I have anything in common with people from NZ apart from the colour of my skin. Even if my ancestors were from the UK (they weren't) that wouldn't make me responsible for the current culture in New Zealand that you say has led to white supremacists.

If you’re on this thread, which started because of what happened in NZ, surely you’re here to discuss NZ too.

We were discussing all whites would be held accountable for what has happened in NZ. Many people think it never happens but you have proved otherwise.

YANBU OP, white supremacy, underpinned by white privilege is a huge problem. And I think this thread proves it. I'm sure none of the posters on here think they are being racist, but the islamophobia, whataboutery and subtle/casual/unconscious racism in some of the posts is astonishing.

I see the treatment of people living in the ME and see it is not a white issue.

land being taken away is a poor example of racism. almost every uk family lost their lands between the Norman’s conquest and the Victorian land clearances

White supremacy has a lot to answer for. Every continent of our world has been affected by the supremacy agenda.

For those who are genuinely wondering what can be done, then please listen. Don’t get defensive about how your ignorance continues to make life so rubbish for those who are not white. please start to learn and listen to what we are saying. Don’t derail the conversation. Don’t hold all muslims/BAME responsible for their ideologies when you cannot handle your own role/ideology/background in the shaping of history.

White supremacists are the most vile beings and we need to be able to talk about it openly. It does not imply that every white person is a supremacist. White privilege exists - if that hurts your sensitivities, then suck it up.

Apparently in 2016 Trump gave a speach about 49 Muslims being shot dead with bullets dipped in pig blood and the 50th person was sent back to tell the people what had happened , and as a result there was no more terrorism for 25 years...

Apparently the moral of the story was that he needs to be harsh with Muslims to stop terrorism...

Now.... that was during the election rally... how on earth was he not prevented from continuing with such hateful statements I have no idea !

I think there has been a big problem with many (many - not all) white westerners lumping all Muslims together and seeing them all as terrorists, ignoring the many Muslims who repeatedly said, 'Not in my name'. Most Muslims are peaceful but some people were guilty of ignoring that fact.

I think it would now be understandable if many Muslims did exactly the same to white westerners and viewed them all as terrorists simply because they are white.

Yes I know there are lots of white western Muslims and there are lots of white people who didn't generalise Muslims in that way but I am just saying lots did, so it is not unreasonable if Muslims now applied the same generalisation to white people.

So much harm done to community relationships, so much pitting communities against each other - which is just what terrorists want.

I am sure there will be retaliations.
I

What? Learning history? Acknowledging how your ‘empire’ colonised other nations? Have you given NZ back yet? Have Māori like me been given my lands back? No and no. My GRANDMOTHER had her land taken, that’s not that far back is it?! What’s your issue, really? I was asked what white people can practically do, and I answered. Ignore it if you wish, carry on in ignorance. If you want to know why people like me feel the way we do, how white supremacy can fester and turn into this horrid act, then learn.

Who is ignoring you? Not me. I asked a question. Because, as a student of history, especially ancient history, I am interested in how long people need to carry the weight of the atrocities that their ancestors carried out.

White supremacy is a fucking blight. All racism is.

However, I am find the 'your ancestors did this' an interesting point.

so it is not unreasonable if Muslims now applied the same generalisation to white people.

No its not. But I do think 'othering' has happened all through history and not just become something, because white people did it to muslims first

My racist creep father kept rifles, not to hunt, but to keep his Māori wife inline.

Oh my god Jessica.. I’m sorry I was too engulfed with sorrow and anger to realise what you meant when you said endogenous NZ.

You are an amazing voice in this issue... I cannot believe how history has been so dismissive of genocides and rewritten by white supremacists.

YANBU OP, white supremacy, underpinned by white privilege is a huge problem. And I think this thread proves it. I'm sure none of the posters on here think they are being racist, but the islamophobia, whataboutery and subtle/casual/unconscious racism in some of the posts is astonishing.sad

Yup

At some point in history, nearly everyone's ancestors have engaged in barbarism and conquest.

Frenchmontana

Your posts tell me you don’t really know the history of NZ at all. I have shared stories about my grandmother, who had land stolen, and then my mother and myself. We aren’t going very far back at all. The issue in NZ is a little different to most because we had a treaty, it wasn’t upheld by the Crown and since before I was born, Māori have fought to have it upheld- mostly on our own. We are constantly told to stop it, it’s too far back blah blah but that’s been the story since it happened. So I am a little sick of people telling me to forget about what should be my land, to forget my own language, to forget that my mother is still oppressed in her own land- because it’s ‘too far back’.

This may be going off topic but I definitely think this is also a male problem. Where does the anger come from to attack & hurt strangers? Whether it’s stabbing a fellow child in the street, shooting your classmates, shooting people enjoying a band or a festival or a nightclub when does that actually become an option & reasonable thing to do? Is it about power & the perception of claiming it back?

We were discussing all whites would be held accountable for what has happened in NZ. Many people think it never happens but you have proved otherwise

You are tiresome, and just don’t want to listen or learn. So I’m not expending energy on you. That you compare a religion to white supremacy in a colonised land, just shows your inability to understand. That’s on you, not me.