To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

[GardenVariety]

Is anyone actually surprised that this has happened? It is shocking and sickening, but let’s face it, it has been so acceptable for so long to vilify muslims, to abuse muslims, to attack muslims - politicians have made careers out of this. Is it any wonder that yet another white supremacist has murdered muslims and has received praise for doing so by keyboard warriors on various platforms.

I (and most muslims in the West) have been dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 by being held responsible for every terrorist atrocity. Dealing with knee-jerk reactions and responses became the norm for me since then. Every terror attack, grooming ring, extremist preacher became my responsibility to explain, condemn and apologise for. I was asked why muslims don’t put double-page ads in the paper to apologise and condemn. I was told that I shouldn’t be surprised at the hostility towards muslims because the few give everyone a bad name.

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me. Will they explain why white people do this? Will they give me a full breakdown of his manifesto, explain each name listed on the white terrorist’s guns, explain the choice of music on the video, explain why he filmed it, explain why he had so much support (white terrorist supported by other whites, therefore all whites must be terrorists) and take out ads in national papers apologising for being white. After all it was a white person who did this and just like all muslims were held accountable, will all whites be held accountable too?

Frenchmontana I agree with your points. It seems that we are advocating for the same goal

There has been a huge increase in islamaphobia, anti-Semitism, sexism and racism in the western world in the last few years. Trump and Brexit have made the pro-white minority think they are validated and that they can surface.

Some of the words that Birds gotta fly (innocent perhaps in her/his case) has used sound just like what pro-white, islamaphobia people start saying before they 'come out'.

(In reference to some of the posts here), NZ and Australia have a absolutely disgusting record when it comes to indigenous people - both in the past and currently.

Sadly there have always been issues though - we even went out to fight muslims in the Crusades so it is not exactly new that people fight or hate each other (never mind the murder of so many Catholics in the UK when the country became protestant).

There has been a huge rduction in sexism in the Western world although that has not been helped by plenty of very sexist religions. I don't agree there has been an increase in sexism.

Most muslims I knew in the Uk as a child did not cover their head even. There has been a sea change back to medieval and saudi forms of dress - that is people's right and I support it but it does mean they are distinguishable much more than when I was a teenager in the 70s.

White nationalism and supremacy is rife. It's under-reported and also undermined AND what's worse, quite a lot of white people still don't get it. It's been in politics for centuries. Trump, who was the inspiration of the gunman, even is denying the rise of white nationalism of which he is the cause of!

It's not fair that as a Muslim, I get treated differently be it covertly or overtly. I have to explain that my family aren't part of terrorist groups or my local mosque isn't an extremist hub or that the men in my family don't oppress me. I was even asked whether I've got bombs strapped/hidden in my wheelchair in some pathetic attempt of a joke. I've had to do all of this explaining as a child and that's even worse.

I shouldn't have to do that at all because when the white attackers went into the Quebec Mosque, the Pittsburgh Synagogue and even into Finsbury Park Mosque in London, no white person around me were asked about it whether their family condemned them.

There are more hate crimes against Muslims and most of them haven't even be reported by the media for more than a few moments by the media.
1)A Somali woman and nearly her daughter who got run over multiple times by a racist white person in the UK just days after the Parsons Green Tube bomb.

2)When a 17yo muslim girl was going home from the mosque during Ramadan in Virginia ended up assaulted and killed by a white racist man but that wasn't considered a hatecrime for some reason.

3)When 3 members of a Muslim family in 2015 in North Carolina were killed on purpose over what his wife and police dismissed as a 'parking dispute' because he wasn't ever racist but he just didn't like people despite his daughter saying he was.

In fact just yesterday, white nationalist people with hammers verbally and physically attacked people going to the mosque in East London. This was hours after what happened in New Zealand. What does that tell you?

You let this stuff simmer long enough and this kind of tragedy happens. I agree Jessica. This has happened long enough and I don't doubt it'll continue happening.

YANBU I agree with you OP whenever there's been a terrorist attack by a Muslim in this country there are endless debates online and in mainstream media about the Muslim community and what it's going to do to root out extremism

Have you had a look at the media since yesterday? There has been some reasonable criticism of figures like Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson. However I have seen the attacks directly blamed on Chelsea Clinton, BBC Question Time, the Conservative Party, LBC, Rupert Murdoch, Brexit and grooming victims and calls for arrests and banning of any journalism or political group which is further right wing than Trotsky.

Opportunists with extreme views always exploit events like this to make political capital when emotions are running high. Be that demanding a ban on face veils or a ban on the Daily Mail.

Fortunately most people aren’t extreme and keep a level head and aren’t influenced by this. If they were we’d live in a pretty horrible place.

GardenVariety

You are so kind and thoughtful. I can’t stop thinking about those poor people, as an atheist I am horrified this happens while they’re just trying to pray and gather together.

There’s so many ways white supremacy is integrated into NZ society. It’s hard to know where to start. The UN has issued many warnings regarding the institutional racism in our police & corrections systems, you can read them online. The treaty of waitangi is a massive issue as promises the crown made were not carried out- my Nan had heaps of land stolen and her family cemetery was built on top of, where her parents laid. Parihaka is a fairly well known story of passive resistance, I’m a descendant of one of the leaders, Te Whiti O Rongomai ( a new book Te Whiti O Rongomai & the resistance at Parihaka by Danny Keegan is really good ), but also known as one of the greatest injustices, mass land confiscation, murder, taking the men away & leaving the woman isolated and raped en masse by soldiers.
When I was at school, I got in trouble for refusing to tick one ethnicity box, and they wouldn’t let me use my proper name, it’s Māori. I’m not even that old, so this is fairly recent- late 80’s early 90’s. In the late 90’s as part of a peaceful march my Mum was abused on the street by white women. Today she still has issues at work, and she works in a government dept.
As far as education goes, the land wars are not on the curriculum, nor Māori language.
Day to day, Māori and other Polynesians will face street abuse, open rejection of the inclusion of their culture, racial profiling, social media is rife with racism and stereotypes- I often get told Māori are lazy and dumb and expect handouts.

I’m sure many Muslim people will identify with the street abuse. Again, I am so sorry to those who were given a false impression of our country. I wish it were true.

That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people aren’t to blame for these things

This is the biggest falsehood on this thread. Most people are’nt terrorists but that does not mean they are not racist and contributing to a racist society. If not openly racist, most have underlying prejudice and are not actively anti-racism. Again, NZ is founded on white supremacy, that’s what the current government represents: colonisation. Most kiwis don’t want to even learn basic Te Reo Māori in school, ‘ don’t force it on us’ they say. Ironic huh?

Identity politics can get stupid, but RACISM is a historical problem that permeates every society, every country, every system, structure and clearly benefits one group: White people. If you are white, you are the recipient of a racist history and present. You can either get honest about that and create a different future, or you can keep denying the fucking obvious.

If anyone would like to and is able to donate, this community will need ongoing help with day to day living, and security as well. Don’t forget that many are still recovering after the earthquake as the insurers have been appalling, they’ve literally lost everything some of them. I don’t know how many involved in this were also affected by the earthquake but many at the mosques are longtime residents of Christchurch. Thanks

givealittle.co.nz/cause/christchurch-shooting-victims-fund

This is the biggest falsehood on this thread. Most people are’nt terrorists but that does not mean they are not racist and contributing to a racist society. If not openly racist, most have underlying prejudice and are not actively anti-racism. Again, NZ is founded on white supremacy, that’s what the current government represents: colonisation. Most kiwis don’t want to even learn basic Te Reo Māori in school, ‘ don’t force it on us’ they say. Ironic huh?

So you are saying that all white people have responsiblity for the terrorist attacks by white supremacists because you think we are all racist even if not actively?

So you are saying that all white people have responsiblity for the terrorist attacks by white supremacists because you think we are all racist even if not actively?

Every white person in NZ that has not listened, has not spoken out, has tried to paint NZ as peaceful and tolerant, who is against Te Reo in schools... have contributed to a culture where racism and white supremacism has thrived, and that enabled this attack. You can’t say this popped up out of nowhere, anymore than you can say rape culture doesn’t enable rape. Read my comment: even if not racist ( specifically NOT saying all are racist ), most have underlying prejudice and are not actively anti-racism.

What’s hard to comprehend about my very clear comment?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

So you are saying that all white people have responsiblity for the terrorist attacks by white supremacists because you think we are all racist even if not actively?

That's not how I read it.

The fact is that racism and acceptance of societal racism causes hatred. White privilege means white people don't have to endure the kind of shit BAME do.

Every time they are dismissed when trying to tell us how it is, it contributes to a hateful society. Sidelining, ignoring and minimising hatred and racism is as much a part of the problem as the openly racist scumbags who spew their bile.

So yes, we do have a responsibility to speak out against it and condemn it unequivocally.

Why wouldn't you?

What’s hard to comprehend about my very clear comment?

The part that is not clear is whether you are talking about white people in general or just those that live in New Zealand when you say that we are all racist and have contributed to a culture where racism and white supremacism has thrived and are therefore have some responsibility for the attack.

when you say that we are all racist

I’ll only respond to you if you stop misquoting and reframing my original comment.

we are all racist

She didn't say that, at all. You are wilfully misunderstanding her point which is quite ironic and an epic derail

I’ll only respond to you if you stop misquoting and reframing my original comment.

Okay. Are you just talking about white people in New Zealand or white people in general when you state
"Most people are’nt terrorists but that does not mean they are not racist and contributing to a racist society."

How has a thread about white supremacists become "but what about the white people and how we feel"?

Although it illustrates the problem perfectly doesn't it?

Dungeondragon15

We are talking about NZ, but it’s relevant to the two places I’ve lived, UK & NZ. You’ve also cut up my comment again.

Your focus is really interesting, and one I’ve found to be quite common.

Although it illustrates the problem perfectly doesn't it?

Indeed it does.

Opportunists with extreme views always exploit events like this to make political capital when emotions are running high. Be that demanding a ban on face veils or a ban on the Daily Mail

I have never seen a demand for the banning of the Daily Mail (though have for banning of face veils)

SO whilst partly agreeing with you jessica I a must a very unclear about what you actually practically expect white people to do or say. Could you elaborate?

We are talking about NZ, but it’s relevant to the two places I’ve lived, UK & NZ. You’ve also cut up my comment again.

My focus is on whether white people do get blamed for the actions of other white people. This is a UK website and the great majority of posters are from the UK and would never have set in NZ. The only thing we have in common with white people in NZ is the colour of our skin and you seem to think that means we have responsibility of the culture which has led to attacks by white supremacist. You seem to be doing exactly what some people do when there are attacks by Muslims i.e. holding everyone of the same race or religion accountable.

There has been a sea change back to medieval and saudi forms of dress
Those bloody Muslims and their medieval dress shakes fist (sarcasm). Many Muslim women in Pakistan and India don't cover their hair or only partly cover. It was the same in the UK until islamaphobia increased post 9/11. Many Muslim women were made to feel like they're weren't British and being a Muslim became an identity they could have whatever, one that they couldn't be denied. A scarf doesn't mean someone is indoctrinated, anti-Semitic, homophobic and whatever else.

Sexism has definitely increased in the last few years, especially since MGTOW has become popular and post me too. Some men are very angry at being challenged and hate that they can't do and say what they used to be able to (particularly at work and in the dating world)

A lot of people need to challenge their views on Muslims and people from different backgrounds. Challenge the views of others you know as well. We must all fight against all the -isms and not ignore them because they don't directly affect us.

MIdgebabe

Are you serious? You need to be told to listen to indigenous people? To object when you see racism? To support calls for Māori language inclusion? Do you honestly need to be given step by step instructions on this? I’ve spoken a lot above on the issues I have with NZ. So a first step, is acknowledging and learning about the real history of NZ, and embracing Māori culture alongside your own, including asking your school if relevant, to teach the language, as a very basic beginning. Oh and stop saying NZ doesn’t have a white supremacist problem too. It’s built on it.