To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

[GardenVariety]

Is anyone actually surprised that this has happened? It is shocking and sickening, but let’s face it, it has been so acceptable for so long to vilify muslims, to abuse muslims, to attack muslims - politicians have made careers out of this. Is it any wonder that yet another white supremacist has murdered muslims and has received praise for doing so by keyboard warriors on various platforms.

I (and most muslims in the West) have been dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 by being held responsible for every terrorist atrocity. Dealing with knee-jerk reactions and responses became the norm for me since then. Every terror attack, grooming ring, extremist preacher became my responsibility to explain, condemn and apologise for. I was asked why muslims don’t put double-page ads in the paper to apologise and condemn. I was told that I shouldn’t be surprised at the hostility towards muslims because the few give everyone a bad name.

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me. Will they explain why white people do this? Will they give me a full breakdown of his manifesto, explain each name listed on the white terrorist’s guns, explain the choice of music on the video, explain why he filmed it, explain why he had so much support (white terrorist supported by other whites, therefore all whites must be terrorists) and take out ads in national papers apologising for being white. After all it was a white person who did this and just like all muslims were held accountable, will all whites be held accountable too?

Op, I understand what your saying, this was an Australian politician embarrassingly. Even when it's a proven white guy, muslims still cop the blame. He sadly has supporters. He isn't a lone voice

www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/15/australian-senator-fraser-anning-criticised-blaming-new-zealand-attack-on-muslim-immigration

Terrorism across most of my childhood meant the IRA. We certainly felt more at risk of it in Ireland and the UK now than we do feel at risk of terrorism in 2019 in my view. We are safer now than then. So for many in the UK the terrorism we has been the IRA. I remember the Baader menhoff gang to far left group in Germany.

Also many of the muslims I know (white and not white muslims) don't wear different clothes from other UK citizens so I am not sure people can tell they are muslims or jewish or christian or atheist. They are just normal UK citizens.

It’s a male violence problem and has ever been thus.

I don't like this 'mental illness' narrative. This is damaging to people who are mentally ill. The vast majority of mentally ill people would never dream of attacking others or being violent. People with mental illness are far more likely to be victims and also to die prematurely.

It is perfectly possible to hold abhorrent views without being mentally ill.

Also many of the muslims I know (white and not white muslims) don't wear different clothes from other UK citizens so I am not sure people can tell they are muslims or jewish or christian or atheist. They are just normal UK citizens.

It is very easy to tell looking at a woman in a hijab and/or jilbab that she is Muslim. Many Muslim women wear these and it makes obvious to other people that they are Muslim. Obviously you can't tell looking at any Muslim if they are Muslim or not but it is very easy to spot who is Muslim if they are wearing a hijab and jilbab.

TacoLover and I know plenty of muslims who dont suffer like that.

No you are writing off others experiencing. I an not arguing with you. I am debating. You are the one saying it's not as bad or never has been as bad.

Actually has been and it does come up alot. Jokes about Irish people and Irish terrorists are generally accepted as funny. It's not funny. I am no minimising your experience I am putting another point of view. But you actually know nothing about being Irish catholic.

You have said you cant see an IRA attack happening soon......clearly haven't watched the new this week.

You say the number of Irish people being harassed is less. Yes it is. In part there are less Irish Catholics. In part because the IRA arent involved in alot of current terrorist actions.

That doesnt mean because it's less it doesnt happen or not worth talking about. It doesnt mean my family haven't been through what you are currently going through.

I am not minimising your experience but you are minimising others and assuming because it's not your experience ots not as bad.

When my nana was spat on, the fact that it didn't happe as often as it happens to you now, doesnt make it less upsetting.

Just to say I couldn’t disagree with bejam more!

Stop looking for double standards that aren't there. We have quite enough of those already with you inventing more

per Bejam

WTAF!

I am not minimising your experience but you are minimising others and assuming because it's not your experience ots not as bad. When my nana was spat on, the fact that it didn't happe as often as it happens to you now, doesnt make it less upsetting.

I understand your point and I apologise sincerely for minimising your experience.

The point I was trying to make is that jokes about Irish people in today's society is not really comparable to actual physical attacks on Muslim women as well as verbal abuse, hence why it does not seem reasonable to argue that white people are being discriminated against on the same level as Muslims in today's society; even when there have been several terrorist attacks by white Christians in recent months and years, white people have not been questioned or harassed anywhere near the same level.

I’m not reading the entire thread as I suspect I might get angry at some of the responses.

I’m a Māori New Zealander. NZ is founded on white supremacy. It was colonised by the British & Irish. It’s also true that a lot of Māori & Polynesians are Muslim because they see Christianity as an extension of colonisation.

I am not and was not surprised at what happened. Māori have been talking about our white supremacy problem for our entire combined history. The focus here is on these victims, as it should be. But if you want a wider discussion on how and why, ask indigenous people. We were almost eradicated, our language banned, our lands stolen. We were killed too. But all I’m seeing on social media is, this is not is, this is so shocking... its not. It’s horrific and brutal and sudden. But sadly, I am not surprised. My racist creep father kept rifles, not to hunt, but to keep his Māori wife inline.

My heart goes out to the Muslim community, I hope others can donate as apart from requiring help for the obvious costs, they’ll likely need money to add security to their mosques. I am very sad my country did this to you but don’t expect honest conversations.

Then you're wrong and you're assuming those shared values and ideologies are the ones associated with terrorism which they are very much not.

mmm a fair point, but I don't think I am assuming that at all - I don't know one way or the other what values and ideologies are shared. I just don't think that skin colour (physical) and religion (a way of thinking) are directly comparable.

Just caught up with the thread and I am not at all surprised by the simmering islamophobia.

White supremacy has been an issue for a very long time. The rise and rise of the racist far right has been driven by islamophobia. This is a fact. America first, Britain first, EDL, UKIP, BNP - all white supremacist groups spout the same islamophobic agenda.

White supremacist groups are currently a bigger threat than Isis type groups. islamophobia constitutes half of all hate crimes reported. islamophobes claim that they condemn violence. Current state of affairs and stats on hate crime do not support this claim.

I hope others, including the OP ( YANBU by the way ) also recognise this attack wasn’t just about islamaphobia, racism and white supremacy have its roots imbedded deeply in my country. If we want to have a discussion on what happened, please try and understand and listen to indigenous voices.

White people have a duty to listen, because the facts are being denied on an epic scale.

That doesn't change the truth, it means people are denying the truth.

It needs to change, instead of distancing ourselves from BAME people telling us what the problem is, we ought to be listening and standing shoulder to shoulder with those trying to change things.

White people have no concept of the oppression BAME people face on a daily basis, the micro aggressions, the prejudice.

Yes, some of us have experienced some kind of oppression or bigotry, but not to any thing like the same level.

YANBU I agree with you OP whenever there's been a terrorist attack by a Muslim in this country there are endless debates online and in mainstream media about the Muslim community and what it's going to do to root out extremism. Discussions about young Muslims' education and how that will address extremism but very little about what white people are doing to root out white supremacist ideas developing. I've seen people move away from 'brown' people on the tube - after an attack - it's happened to me and I'm not Muslim just brown. I've seen young Muslim girls who wear hijab scared and in tears because of how they are treated in the street.

I'm also aware that in parties like the Labour Party there are members who espouse anti-racism yet support people like David Duke in their views on Jewish people - and other white non-ethnic minority people not challenge them. Yet if it was found that a Muslim person had not challenged extremist views in another Muslim they would be considered to have allowed extremism to flourish. Vile idiots like Tommy Robinson are treated like folk heroes by some and ignored by others, it's appalling. AS are a lot of the denials/deflections/justifications being peddled by some of the posters on this thread.

JessicaWakefield
You are an amazing person, your post is heart-breaking to read.

White supremacists care so little about the very current impact of their heinous, supremacist, racist colonial ways.

That is what they think makes them great - oppression.

They minimise and victim-blame. It’s their MO.

I am Irish catholic, As a DC I grew up on the border in Monaghan and Dublin, spent lots of time with family in Belfast, I had a cousin shot, travelled in my 20s. I have experienced anti irish but I can NOT claim it to be the experience of Muslim community, they are vilified all over the world.
I've seen young women verbally abused in shopping centres, on buses, when wearing their hijab.
I can't compare.
We shouldn't compare.
JessicaWakefieldSVH
Your post was very sincere and honest, I will definitely donate what I can.
It is so sad but I hope it isn't followed.

Jessica, I 100% agree with you.

Indigenous people, whether in Australia, New Zealand or USA, have been dealt the most barbaric, savage and brutal injustice by white supremacists.

GardenVariety oh thank you! I’m so desperately sad about this, but also incredibly frustrated at the conversations being had. NZ is not some utopia of peace and tolerance, far far from it. The things that happened to my Nan, to my Mum, my other whanau, myself to a lesser extent... it’s truly awful. We knew this was coming. Nobody listened to us. NZ has tolerated racism and violence, the highest rate of DV in the developed world, for far too long. You let this stuff simmer long enough and this kind of tragedy happens. But whether it’s a big and scary terrorist attack, or a long slow eradication, it is devastating. I’m so sad many of those that had their lives taken or changed by this came to our country thinking it was peaceful and safe. It never has been.

Frenchmontana I don't see how Taco is writing of others experience.
If anything you should be able to emphasise having shared similar abuse?
It is not a competition, I am extremely patriotic but you really cant compare.

Jessica, I have some knowledge of the treatment of indigenous people at the hands of white racists. It is shameful.

Please feel free to share the experiences (if you wish) of your family. The ignorance of racist white people is astounding.

Jessica, I want you to know that I don’t care only about muslims, I dearly care about your sufferings too.

The point I was trying to make is that jokes about Irish people in today's society is not really comparable to actual physical attacks on Muslim women as well as verbal abuse, hence why it does not seem reasonable to argue that white people are being discriminated against on the same level as Muslims in today's society; even when there have been several terrorist attacks by white Christians in recent months and years, white people have not been questioned or harassed anywhere near the same level.

I didn't compare joke about Irish people to attacks on muslims. I compared the attacks on my Irish nana in the 80s and 90s. When attacks by Irish Catholics were happening. Which is the situation that is comparable.

You also said that the IRA wouldn't be attack soon. You are making the mistake that lots of people, who dont live there make. That it's all hunky dorey there and therefore gone and in the past. Its notm and its worrying that it could boil over again. A colleague of mine served there in the British army. We discussed the general view that it's all done and gone, which isnt how it actually is.

At no point have i said you are wrong, that's it's ok or that's it not as bad. But dismissing other experiences and saying it doesnt happen or it's not as bad, Is minimising.

It's horrible and it shouldn't happen. My original point was that white terrorisism is put down to mental health. Sometimes it is but not always.

EmeraldShamrock yes she has. She has even commented that the IRA wont be carrying out anything any time soon, so it's not a current problem. Of course it is. For people in northern Ireland. For Irish people living here, it's very much a concern and something we deal with when stories like this weeks starts.

She has also point out the number of attacks on Irish people is less. Of course it is as the "IRA" arent as active. And there are less Irish catholic people. Saying it happens to less Irish people is minimising. It should happen at all. And given the fact that it has happen, you know it leaves scars.

Also, do you think groups of Irish people arent started upon just because they are Irish. You try and complain that it's because of xenophobia, the police dont want to know. Because the general consensus is 'Irish dont have it as bad' or 'dont be daft as if people have a problem with Irish people'. But they do.

I haven't been spat at yet. But IF a bomb goes off here and someone calling themselves the IRA claims responsibility. It's only a matter of time.

I also pointed out that I wouldn't apologise for it. Because I dont support it. Just like I don't blame all muslims for terrorist attacks made by some muslims. That concept is stupid.

We have something in common. We both know something of what the other suffers. And its fucking shit.

YANBU

hence why it does not seem reasonable to argue that white people are being discriminated against on the same level as Muslims in today's society

Well, the thing is, many people would respond that the biggest recent case of people being refused access to public services and equal treatment before the law based on their race, involving thousands and thousands of people which continued for decades and was deliberately hushed up by authorities is the grooming scandals involving white girls and their families.

And many other people would respond that Muslims are persecuted by the prevent programme.

And some people would respond that was because of Islamic terrorism.

Which other people would say was because of racism and western foreign policy.

Which other people would say was caused by 9/11 and unstable and extreme Muslim states.

Which other people would blame on Western policy in Israel and regarding oil.

I could carry on all day like that. Listing grievances and justifications that both sides weaponise.

That doesn’t change the fact that the vast majority of people aren’t to blame for these things and random killings of innocent people are never justified by anything.

Anybody who indulges in whataboutery, who minimises or justifies attacks on one group, who grades attacks by the worthiness the assign to the victims views is contributing to the cycle of violence.

It stands to reason. No-one would be surprised that the Daily Mail Online yesterday were leading with apologist headlines/coverage but this I would never have believed would come from Sky News: