To think the world has a big white supremacy problem?

[GardenVariety]

Is anyone actually surprised that this has happened? It is shocking and sickening, but let’s face it, it has been so acceptable for so long to vilify muslims, to abuse muslims, to attack muslims - politicians have made careers out of this. Is it any wonder that yet another white supremacist has murdered muslims and has received praise for doing so by keyboard warriors on various platforms.

I (and most muslims in the West) have been dealing with the aftermath of 9/11 by being held responsible for every terrorist atrocity. Dealing with knee-jerk reactions and responses became the norm for me since then. Every terror attack, grooming ring, extremist preacher became my responsibility to explain, condemn and apologise for. I was asked why muslims don’t put double-page ads in the paper to apologise and condemn. I was told that I shouldn’t be surprised at the hostility towards muslims because the few give everyone a bad name.

So here I am, wondering if those people (all white) who were quick to vilify my religion and me and demanded an apology and explanation for the latest newspaper headline will now explain today’s headlines to me. Will they explain why white people do this? Will they give me a full breakdown of his manifesto, explain each name listed on the white terrorist’s guns, explain the choice of music on the video, explain why he filmed it, explain why he had so much support (white terrorist supported by other whites, therefore all whites must be terrorists) and take out ads in national papers apologising for being white. After all it was a white person who did this and just like all muslims were held accountable, will all whites be held accountable too?

I think we should focus on the problem as extremism in any form from any group. Unfortunately there is a lot of it about. I think everyone can and should condemn this type of event, there quite simply is no excuse for justifying such actions by argument or silence. Manchester, Christchurch, Paris or Mumbai the problem is the same, extremist driven hate.

Also, I haven't seen the horrendous attack in NZ referred to as a terrorist attack. Anywhere.

You didn't look very hard then. It was the headline everywhere I looked yesterday including the BBC website.

She is showing how ridiculous it is for people to ask Muslims to apologise for terrorists that are nothing to do with them.

FFS people try harder, honestly. Maybe start by RTFT.

Why dont you read peoples posts? That was my point. Asking a whole group to apologise is stupid. And not something any one should be doing. And I wouldn't apologise for it either.

People love to forget the fact that more Muslims have been murdered by ISIS than any other religion, yet we somehow share responsibility

This really is true, and it's always been so with Islamist terrorism. But shockingly very little is said about Islamist extremist activity acts of terrorism in Muslim countries.

YANBU, OP. There is a ridiculous double standard here.

Anyone who has said "we" should do this or that as a result of the terrorism or bigoted comments. I get that OP is just saying that there is a double standard but actually there isn't.

Hahaha do white people get questioned and harassed or asked to justify a terrorist attack every time there is a US school shooting, then?

No, we don't have a huge white supremacy problem. That is just what governments and media feeding frenzy want people to believe. Governments always need scapegoats. I can't think of many countries in the world that don't have some scapegoat underclass.

No, Muslims shouldn't have to explain why a particular person or group killed.

There has been and is no shortage of all colours killing others of any colour. There are genocides going on right now but they don't get a media frenzy like a terrorist mass murder does in western countries.

Link to all Genocides past and present that we know of listed here. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_genocides_by_death_toll

Why this happens? What is so toxic about some men they want to just annihilate others? Find out the answers to that.

"In response I got white people asking me why I didn't talk about male privilege and reminding me that it exists"

I have masses of respect for Mumsnet feminism but I'm afraid you've hit the nail on the head there as to why I have some issues with it. There seems to be a bit of a blind spot about white privilege. So Christchurch is one-dimensional discussed as a toxic masculinity issue when it is also a racism and religious prejudice issue.

Asking a whole group to apologise is stupid. And not something any one should be doing. And I wouldn't apologise for it either.

...that's the OP's point what exactly are you arguing against? The OP pointed out the double standard of expecting Muslims to apologise but never white people for a white terrorist.

But TacoLover Irish people did have to apologise or face discrimination because of the actions of the IRA.

No, we don't have a huge white supremacy problem. That is just what governments and media feeding frenzy want people to believe. Governments always need scapegoats. I can't think of many countries in the world that don't have some scapegoat underclass.

White people are a scapegoat underclass? And white supremacy is not a problem? I've heard it all now

*Hahaha do white people get questioned and harassed or asked to justify a terrorist attack every time there is a US school shooting, then?

I have no idea what your point is.

I think it does, but I think the far greater problem (which you are not allowed to mention because it's "too soon", apparently) is male violence. Yes I know one of the 4 arrested was female. I can't remember the last terrorist who was female since the Beslan schol attacks.

And lets not call them terrorists either. Don't dignify them with a cause. They don't have a cause. They are mass murderers, pure and simple.

The big difference for me is that the white supremacist is not coming from any group I'm part of.

If for instance I was still a practising Catholic and these men were using Catholic reasons, no matter how twisted to kill then yes I would feel a great onus and responsibilities to condone it.

But I'm not affiliated, or member of anything these men were we share no common ideology.

The other common ground I have with these perps is being a member of the human race. For that I say these attacks are heart breaking and dispicable.

But TacoLover Irish people did have to apologise or face discrimination because of the actions of the IRA.

Emphasis on did. Do white people have to apologise for other white people now? Yes the Irish faced appalling discrimination for a very long time. The OP has raised an issue of today's world where POC are attributed to the actions of strangers they did not know. Racism against the Irish is not a widespread problem in today's society, and only reinforces OP's point that it's considered unacceptable now to attribute Irish people to the IRA, yet it's fine to question a Muslim about the actions of some random terrorist.

Christchurch is one-dimensional discussed as a toxic masculinity issue when it is also a racism and religious prejudice issue

So are all the Muslim to Christian attacks.

And the point remains, women may be racist and prejudiced against certain religions, but they don't tend to go around shooting innocent people. It DOES come down to a male violence issue.

You can't deny foe a second he was a white supremacy terrorist.
They plan it for weeks.
Most of these white terrorists are homophobic too.
He stated to subscribe to a top swiss youtuber, one currently in a subscription friendly fight with a popular Indian youtuber.
He was trying to maximise his audience.

Is it fair to say that it’s almost exclusively a white male supremacist problem? Almost every time some bastard with a gun does this, it’s a lone white male.

I think we do have a race problem, but I also think we have an enormous mental health crisis, coupled with a culture of toxic masculinity. These men then latch onto the race and supremacy ideas because it’s something they can blame for their own isolation and/or failings.

Sorry this is rather inarticulate. I have so many angry and sorrowful thoughts about this that I can’t seem to elucidate any of them.

TacoLover Right, you do know people are still fighting for justice over Bloody Sunday? So if the IRA started attacks again you really think people will separate the group from Irish people?

I think it does, but I think the far greater problem (which you are not allowed to mention because it's "too soon", apparently) is male violence.

The point I made is that it's incredibly frustrating when a POC brings up an issue relating to racism then someone tries to deflect away from their concern with "Well what about MALE violence??!" or try and minimise the problem with racism by saying "well male violence is a way bigger problem!!" as if male violence being a bigger problem means that we shouldn't be allowed as POC to focus on racism without acknowledging male violence. Not every conversation has to be focused around male violence.

It comes across as very patronising and trying to deflect from the conversation that POC are trying to have about racism. If you want to talk about how male violence is a problem, then start a thread. Don't only pipe up with "what about male violence??" and try to deflect or minimise another issue. It raises the question of why people don't start a thread about male violence, but instead come into threads about racism to lecture us about how it's a bigger problem.

I hear you, Op, I hear you

(

(and this is why I am economical with the truth on my ethic background)

Right, you do know people are still fighting for justice over Bloody Sunday? So if the IRA started attacks again you really think people will separate the group from Irish people?

I don't see any way that the IRA would start attacks again but if they did, no I would not think that people would link them to all Irish people. UKIP is mostly full of white supremacists, do you ever see people harassing or questioning random white people online or in person for the actions of UKIP or Britain First?

My point was that in today's society, even when there are white terrorists, white people are not held accountable unlike many minority groups, which is why I don't understand your point. Are you saying that because Irish people were in this position in the past white supremacy is not a problem? Is that what you are saying?

what exactly are you arguing against? The OP pointed out the double standard of expecting Muslims to apologise but never white people for a white terrorist.

I wasnt. I was posting my opinion on the subject

I don't see any way that the IRA would start attacks again but if they did, no I would not think that people would link them to all Irish people.

Hmm you not seen the news this week?

I have had 3 separate comments about it, from people who know I am Irish.

OP - I understand your point and generally YANBU.

However, for me the slight difference is that I share a physical feature with the NZ attacker, which is that I am white. I have no choice in this and I don't share in his white supremacy ideologies. I condemn him, his thinking and his actions - not because I am white but because I am human.

For me, this is slightly different to religion where it could be assumed that those practicing Islam (or other religion) have some shared values and ideologies based on the teachings of that religion. I don't expect Muslims to apologise for attacks by other Muslims but I do expect them to condemn them (privately at least!).