How can anyone have an ounce of respect for Corbyn

[Sol44]

The man is a snake. We all know he’s a Brexiteer, so why not just come out and say it? This man has no principles - he’s purely concerned with getting into No 10 and there is no low he won’t sink to in order to get there. He’s spent years heckling from the sidelines, but it’s all smoke and mirrors to detract from the fact that he has nothing of any substance to offer on any area of policy-making, let alone the Brexit shambles. The man is an utter joke.

Surely his days are numbered now, as are TM’s and the all the other Brexiteers who put their careers in front of their principles?

I agree its not anti-semitic to criticise the Israely government but there are those that would like to conflate anti-zionism and anti-semitism as displayed earlier in this very thread, please watch the clip I posted of Noam Chomsky

from the wikipedia entry on the IHRA -

The non-legally binding working definition includes illustrative examples of antisemitism to guide the IHRA in its work. These examples include classical antisemitic tropes, Holocaust denial and attempts to apply a double standard to the State of Israel.[9] Although internationally recognised by many groups, the working definition of antisemitism has been criticised by some as too broad, and conflating anti-Zionism with antisemitism

Actually saw a load of posters call Montentum Blairites on Twitter the other day.

That made me chuckle

I've had literally nothing to do with Momentum so I'm unsure how many of you are polite as a percentage and yes all the people on Twitter could well not be members.

They did share a post of the most unpleasant abuse levied towards Luciana Berger and call if out, the replies on that thread were a sewer momentum confirmed they believed some of the comments were from Labour members.

These are not genuine comments of criticism of Israel. It's so possible to do that.

I know right.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/marlonsolomon.wordpress.com/2017/07/01/another-antisemitic-voice/amp

I'm not sure if this link works but seeing your link to AAV brought this into mind.

seahorse, so then what you are saying is that you cannot link the quote you gave, because it does not exist. Like I said, another sad and desperate smear, to muddy the waters after another disasterous day for May and the tories.

Thank you haunted thats an interesting counter point I will keep in mind :)

@JustAnotherPoster00 I'm referring to the members of that faction I have frequent contact with and who generally represent the movement as a whole. You might well be lovely and polite, that doesn't mean what you stand for isn't overall grim or that other members aren't worryingly pushing certain agendas.

Just: The actual IHRA Definition of Antisemitism:

Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

Making mendacious, dehumanising, demonising, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.

Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).

Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.

Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination (e.g. by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour).

Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g. claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterise Israel or Israelis.

Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.

Where does it say that any criticism of the Israeli government is antisemitic?

Applying double standards by requiring of Israel a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.

Thats the bit that garners the most criticism I believe

I personally dont have any issues with the IHRA as it stands I still think it allows scope for criticism of the ISG, Labour should have adopted it straight away and that would have certainly help convince people that they were on the right track but like I keep saying youre going to have idiots in all parties and sometimes JC is the idiot in his :)

Corbyn has no principles? FFS, People don't like him precisely because he does have principles

This

Just, you said it classes any criticism of the Israely state government as anti-semitic and so restricts the ability of those who want to stand up for the palestinian people.

Do you take that back? Because it clearly doesn’t, even though people were claiming that it does.

One wonders what their real problem is with it? From antisemitism I’ve seen on twitter, they sure like comparing Jews to Nazis, so it might be that bit.

Saying that people don't like Jeremy because he is a Man of Integrity is a strange one.

Why would anyone have a problem with that?

Do you take that back?

Happily on a personal level but I cant take back what the academic critics of it say if that makes sense doesnt mean I agree with them but I'm trying to be objective to some degree as well

From antisemitism I’ve seen on twitter, they sure like comparing Jews to Nazis, so it might be that bit.

When people do that it amazes me it combines being an idiot with no idea about sensitivity and compassion, its not limited to the left though I will add but to be the side that professes to care about minorities Id expect there to be none, it is being tackled but maybe too slow which may mean too late only time can tell on that one

Do you think it was a good idea for the Labour Party to be incredibly picky about a definition of antisemitism by saying it prohibits something that it doesn’t, when the party is under criticism for not taking antisemitism seriously?

I mean, didn’t anyone consider the optics?

I already mentioned that upthread giraffe, I was shaking my head throughout that whole debarcle, as you say wasnt anyine thinking 'well this is coming across like a turd' huge huge face palm moment

it combines being an idiot with no idea about sensitivity and compassion

Oh they know exactly what they’re doing. That’s why they do it, because they’re antisemites.

I’ve seen an awful lot of Jew-baiting on twitter too, by Labour supporters who then pull an innocent face and claim ‘that’s not antisemitic omg you’re overreacting’ but we see them.

Like Young Labour’s twitter account.

All I can add say to the Labour suppoters part is if thats evidence then they need to be called out but as far as I know theres no way Corbyn can stop people saying stupid shit if there is a way please tell me

If Young Labour are at it, theyre not a group I'm familiar with, they also need to be kicked out of the party, I think this is somewhere that Corbyn is going to have to be unforgiving on now even if it is excessive just to kind of stem the flow if that makes sense?

Giraffe youre coming across as if youre trying to have an 'ah gotcha' moment, just an observation

I also think that some people are so entrenched in the pro palestine movement that they check their common sense at the door and they drift into anti-semitism by accident through the ridiculous notion that the airwaves are controlled, James O'Brien did an interesting piece on it, made me take a hard look at myself just incase I was using any of the idiotic tropes myself when I stand up for the palestinian movement, luckily I think my conscience is clear on this, although please judge what I've had to say and correct me if I havent been, never too old to learn something salient

theres no way Corbyn can stop people saying stupid shit

But then you say he has to be unforgiving now and start booting people out properly. So he can stop people saying stupid shit, can’t he?

How I’m coming across is trying to counter the ‘people don’t like Corbyn because the right wing media tell them not to’ bullshit.

There are real issues with Corbyn and his leadership, and it isn’t just a smear campaign sucked up by the gullible.

David Scheider posts a lot on this and is/was "pro corbyn".

Worth a look if you haven't already.

Actually I watched the Momentum video about spotting and countering antisemitism and thought it was perfectly reasonable, if a little late.

I think they are trying to make an effort, which is to be welcomed.

But then you say he has to be unforgiving now and start booting people out properly.

Yes action that can only be done to a member of the Labour party but not a lot you can do to someone who 'says' theyre a Labour supporter and spouts dumb shit unless you can find a way of physically taking the keyboard away from them and I've had dealings with enough of those idiots no matter what particular party they show allegiance to

In a way I do hope this investigation into anti-semitism is given the go ahead because it will be decisive for good or for ill, but that still wont take away my support for the policies

Right off to bed, I found this article interesting, I offer it as no proof of anything but its a good read with interesting facts surrounding it

www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/truth-about-seumas-milne-jeremy-corbyn-and-new-mccarthyism