To ask what's so great about private school

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So my friend was privately educated, and so was her partner. They put their school aged children in a very prestigious private school but then had to take them out and move in with her parents. I don't quite know what happened but I think they overstretches themselves financially.
Now her two children are happily settled into the local state school but she still insists that she will be moving them back to private school in the future. My question is why would you decide to do this if you can't really afford to?
I was state school educated from a single parent family and went to a terrible primary school, but I have great memories. My friend and I actually do the same job, we are both admin assistants on a few quid more than minimum wage. I don't think that her private education has actually benefited her at all.
I tried to ask her what exactly she felt that a private education gave you that a state education didn't. She used the example of writers visiting the school, inspiring children to write and improve literacy. I have a creative writing degree, nothing would have prevented me from writing stories, it's all I've ever wanted to do since I learnt to write. My best friend has a 2:1 degree in Literature from Oxford, she also went to a state school in a 'deprived area' and was raised by a single mum.
I honestly don't understand what a private education gets you apart from possibly helping you to make contacts. It's certainly not more important than trying to buy your own home, in my eyes.
Fully expecting to get flamed.

I agree that it’s unfair that parental wealth affects education so much. This isn’t limited to private education. Entry to popular, non selective state schools is, essentially, purchased via housing costs. Entry to popular, selective state schools is part purchased through tuition by a parent with the time/resources or paid tutor.

Small class sizes are often cited but the main thing you get is a bunch of kids whose parents care about education, any disruptive kids are quickly removed

It does have odd slightly unexpected implications. For example especially in the early years, an unnaturally large number of your child’s classmates will have no brothers and sisters, and families of three or more children will be vanishingly rare. This creates a strange sort of entitlement mixed with immaturity (accustomed to 100% adult attention) and a struggle to take your turn.

Another odd thing is that because many independent schools reel working parents in by offering 8am to 6pm childcare from as early as 3 months, you have children who are oddly ‘institutionalsed’, for example demonstrating indiscriminate displays of ‘affection’ to adults with whom they are not familiar.

On the other hand, if you prioritise academic learning, there is certainly a ‘headstart’ to be had from the very earliest years.

Small classes in a mixed pre-prep can also create unexpected friendship challenges. If you only have 8 or 9 girls to choose from (or to choose you), you can run out of allegiances quite quickly.

There is also a latent snobbishness in the early years among SAHMs, directed at full-time working mums, especially if those working mums use a full-time nursery place rather than a nanny. The anthropology of independent education is very interesting, as it presents lots of opportunities to display your superiority.

Connections. Simple as that. Any school can teach a kid to read, write and count. But the life long connections and friendships you make in private school are the key benefit.

Wealth stays with the wealthy.

Private school provides you with the keys to open doors which would otherwise remain closed in your face. I went a very well known private school. We have a nickname for fellow alumni, when introducing people at social occasions it's always used and is akin to being a Freemason!

Connections matter at the top few.
Anyone expecting much in that line from AnOther private school might be a bit disappointed.

“It does have odd slightly unexpected implications. For example especially in the early years, an unnaturally large number of your child’s classmates will have no brothers and sisters, and families of three or more children will be vanishingly rare.”

I have not found this to be true at all (co ed school in SW London) - there are a lot of families who have three children at our school and some with more (including us). Also none of our local independent schools offer ‘childcare’ til 6, they finish at 3:30 and limited after school activities some afternoons til 5pm. I think the 6pm finish is more common in country prep / pre prep schools.

I was not privately educated. The differences I notice are the involvement of the parents (ALL parents seem to be on the ball / involved whereas in the state sector, in my own personal experience, this can be much more mixed). The children are a lot more confident and appear to have exposure to a wider range of experiences as ‘standard’. This is only comparing to my own experience (and I was lucky to attend a tiny village church school and an outstanding church senior school - the latter non selective but oversubscribed ).

“The anthropology of independent education is very interesting, as it presents lots of opportunities to display your superiority.”
Yep. Including the “beaten up old Volvo chuck a tent in the boot and shoot off down to Cornwall” demographic.

Floorislava- you are describing privilege.

Wealth stays with the wealthy.

Yes but they tend to me a quite boring bunch - very similar in aspiration, very competitive, stultifyingly coded behaviour. It’s okay for a bit, but diversity matters IMO.

I of course don’t dispute private education is a huge privilege, nor the education I was lucky enough to receive for free.

These threads are always hilarious. People who are fundamentally opposed to private education stating as fact the reasons people choose it

@extrapineapple

I have a creative writing degree, nothing would have prevented me from writing stories, it's all I've ever wanted to do since I learnt to write

For us, it's never been an option, I'm an admin assistant, dp is a butcher.

State or private - how did your degree assist you in life ?

I have many thoughts on this- my parents were Heads of state schools and I was educated state-private-state, my choice to make each change. My sister was state all the way and has arguably been more successful than me. I’m a big believer in finding the right school for each child and private isn’t necessarily best.

That said, DS is currently at a private school. We live in a beautiful house in a lovely village but unfortunately the catchment schools aren’t great. They also don’t have the wrap around and holiday care we need given we both work full time. It’s cheaper for us to educate privately than to move to a smaller house for better schools. This feels like a win win to us- DS gets to attend a lovely little school with just 13 in his class, has wrap around care that he loves and we can stay living in the house we love.

I’ll be sending my DC to a private school so they’re not stuck in a class with disruptive kids and where the teaching staff has low aspirations. I want them to be in an environment where the children are driven and not rough as hell (climbing out of windows, throwing things at teachers, screaming and swearing was the norm in my school). Not a popular view and not one I would voice out loud but that was my experience of school and where I live now the state schools are even worse than mine was.

I do think a hardworking child will do well regardless of the school but why make it harder for them? I do see the merits of mixing with people from all backgrounds - I’m from a very working class background and my only hesitation in sending them private is that they’ll be too insulated from reality, but it’s not enough of a reason to give them a substandard education when we can afford better. I want them to thrive not just survive.

Confused - how nice for you

You can 'thrive not just survive' in the state school system too. I know - who'da thought!

Well at least i can relax in the knowledge that all your privately educated kids will use their education and brilliant minds to make a real difference in the world

You can 'thrive not just survive' in the state school system too. I know - who'da thought!

Maybe some effort could actually go into improving the allocation system so children actually get allocated a doable state place....

I went to a single sex girls school abroad and a state comp in London. Didn't do well at either or fit in. Sports facilities at the former were outstanding but massive lack of pastoral care. Went to uni as a mature student (undergraduate at a good university but not rg) followed by an msc from 3rd best uni in the U.K. I don't give either school credit for getting me where I am today

Pernickity1 - not all state schools are like that (obviously 🙄) and many are able to manage challenging behaviour. Similarly, of course you get disruptive / difficult children in private schools. You get challenges wherever you go though I would agree that you can hopefully minimise the negative challenges by choosing good independent schools (probably harder to find and get into than good state schools).

I have the same worry about exposing them to a tiny sub set of society. But our local state schools are really not great or impossible to get into for catchment / they are Catholic etc. I do what I can to try and make sure they are quietly aware of how lucky we are (in every way) and expose them to a wide range of experiences and people.

I was privately educated. I did well academically but was deeply unhappy and anxious. The pressure to perform was immense, self harm and eating disorders were rife and very much brushed under the carpet out of concern for the schools reputation.Based on my own experience, experiences of friends who went to different independent schools and the experiences of young people I worked with as a CAMHS nurse, I would not choose private for my own DC.

I went to a private school and my bus twenty to a state school. I don’t realise how big the difference was until I met him.

There is no reason why a child can’t do well at a state school if they have work, intelligence and support. However, these things are not guaranteed. Not all of the kids I went to school with were that smart and tbh if it wasn’t for private school probably wouldn’t have done that well. The school was an insurance policy of sorts. It pushed you in a certain way. It pushed you towards well paid jobs and gave you the skills to get them. The aspiration level was high.

Key things were:

On site facilities or access to them over a huge range of interests (sports, drama,art, music etc)

High expectations of pupils and parents

Discipline and order

Confidence was instilled in pupils

Extremely high quality teaching staff on better pay

Access to work experience and knowledge of how ‘the system’ works. You learn how to pass exams. Going to uni isn’t enough. You need to go to a good one, get a 2.1 or a first and get onto a decent graduate training course. You need to speak well and be relatable to employers. Private school will help you here. It’s not fair but that’s the way it is.

I won’t lie I’m gutted that I’m unlikely to be able to afford private school for my son. It’s sad but I actually think it is becoming more not less necessary.

But I realise people don't give a fuck as long as their own kid is ok.

And I suspect that people who come out qith shit like this live in a catchment for a really good state school....