To ask what's so great about private school

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So my friend was privately educated, and so was her partner. They put their school aged children in a very prestigious private school but then had to take them out and move in with her parents. I don't quite know what happened but I think they overstretches themselves financially.
Now her two children are happily settled into the local state school but she still insists that she will be moving them back to private school in the future. My question is why would you decide to do this if you can't really afford to?
I was state school educated from a single parent family and went to a terrible primary school, but I have great memories. My friend and I actually do the same job, we are both admin assistants on a few quid more than minimum wage. I don't think that her private education has actually benefited her at all.
I tried to ask her what exactly she felt that a private education gave you that a state education didn't. She used the example of writers visiting the school, inspiring children to write and improve literacy. I have a creative writing degree, nothing would have prevented me from writing stories, it's all I've ever wanted to do since I learnt to write. My best friend has a 2:1 degree in Literature from Oxford, she also went to a state school in a 'deprived area' and was raised by a single mum.
I honestly don't understand what a private education gets you apart from possibly helping you to make contacts. It's certainly not more important than trying to buy your own home, in my eyes.
Fully expecting to get flamed.

Not read the whole thread, and coming in at the end, this thread, as with many similar, seem to have ended up in the usual class/elitist/snobbery arena.

I, however, chose an Independent school for my DD's because they provided a greater breadth of education. Yes, lots of sport and music, but also several languages Modern and Ancient, several kinds of art and design, IT, Drama. It is not a slave to "teaching to the test", it teaches to the individual. It does not, as a pp states, take the easier iGCSE exams, but a mix of both, choosing which provides the better preparation for ALevels, and you get free choice. They will teach one child, if that one child wants to do the subject. It does not "spoon feed" either, indeed there is "independent study" built into each day. That is what I pay for, and I am very lucky to be in a position to do so.

“those who oppose private school (ie Bertrand) think its elitist and a waste of money but should be taxed at corporate rates not a charity, that it doesn't provide any discernible benefit as the number of "private school" students in universities and politics is fewer than "state school"“
Personally i do think that private schools should not get charitable tax breaks -yes. I don’t think any of the rest, though.

Rupert don’t you know people from poor or working class backgrounds aren’t allowed to value education or see it as a stepping stone out of poverty? We should know our place.

My grandparents were coalminers, uncles are steelworkers/electricians. My dad did unexpectedly well out of programming in the 1980s (started off doing data entry at the DSS). My family have always wanted me to do well at school, and moved me from state to private due to discipline problems in the local state secondary school (children throwing chairs at the teachers head during their tour of the school).

But I guess they were lying about that and secretly it was to keep me away from the non-existent poors in the local state school (even though we were widely seen as the plebs at my state primary school, because we were northern and moved to a not particularly poor part of Sussex).

'I was privately educated because it was the right environment for me' - Smaller classes would be 'the right environment' for everyone!

Well DS went to a private school - if you look at his results and where he ended up - was it worth the money - arguably very much not as his university cohort came from a great range of places. But I am a bit Carpe Diem & he enjoyed those years.

So my two penny worth is ( which I think may have said before )

1. Not all private schools are better than state schools and the same is true the other way around - there are some poor private schools

2. I think if you are going to to spend that money make very very sure that the actual school is worth it ( in whichever way you judge that but be clear on your criteria )

3. Some will never spend money on a private school for either political or philosophical reasons - some will assume a private school is better - the latter not the case - there are some private schools I would not spend ten quid on.

4. School does a certain amount - but if school ( and certainly often parents in the background ) - gets a DC through to a decent university (
   if that is their aspiration - not always the case for eveyone ) then I suspect they will find they have friends and peers from loads of different sorts of schools and 6th forms.

5. the Tim nice but dim cliche in better private schools is just as rubbish as the knife wielding comprehensive child

Anyone for a bit of apple pie and motherhood or perhaps ( have eggs - will pierce - I think I am technically old enough to teach )

I was thinking of my old classmates there are some who have very well paid jobs, others who have married well, some who have a country estate and work with managing said estate or joined family businesses, others in low paid jobs and I don't think the private education has in anyway put them on a path to success, another in jail, and others who have died before the age of 35. Two from cancer and another two in car accidents.

Re: the knife-wielding comprehensive kid: it depends on the comprehensive! We’re there any knife-wielding kids in my local rural Sussex comp? No, the teachers just had no control of the classes and their results were objectively poor, particularly given the affluence of the area. Other state schools down the road were fine, but in those days you couldn’t choose. My mum had no problem with me mixing with these alleged “undesirables” at Guides or swimming.

Are there knife-wielding kids in my closest Lambeth comp? Yes, there are metal detectors and weapons are removed on a regular basis. Is it a majority of the kids? Again no, but it doesn’t need to be to concern me. Plus I’ve also said I don’t like their lockdown-style academy approach either. And there are so few school spaces available locally that DS would almost certainly end up going there not the naice state schools a mile away in Dulwich.

There are no guarantees in life, and whilst it is sometimes money well spent, this isn't always the case. I wouldn't bankrupt myself for school fees.

“Rupert don’t you know people from poor or working class backgrounds aren’t allowed to value education or see it as a stepping stone out of poverty? We should know our place”

Of course they do and of course you shouldn’t. But private schools are not the way to do it. Apart from anything else, private education means that the movers and shakers have no incentive at all to address the issues within state education.

Incidentally, there are 33000 state schools. How many of them have “knife wielders”?

shashkin at know our place.

Bert

Probably most of them along with private schools.
Did you not watch the news today.
I don't think the movers and shakers would improve schools for their children, they would just go abroad or pay for tutors. Can't associate with us plebs, can they?

Re: the knife-wielding comprehensive kid: it depends on the comprehensive!

Clearly unaware then of the backgrounds and the schools of the Hale Barnes Murder Suspects.

Both 17 year old Knife carrying * are pupils of top private schools in Manchester. This as well as at least one of them living in a Multi million pound home !

I think that puts to bed all false stereotyping nonsense about state school and private school kids.

@vulpine- but it's NOT the right environment for everyone! I know three sets of sibs where one has chosen to go state despite their sib going private because they don't fancy the smaller school and they'd rather be in a larger class. They've all done fine and they were happy. In terms of class size they probably have "missed out" but they don't view it that way. That's only one part of their school experience. Also, not all private schools are small. Smaller, perhaps. My boarding school was much bigger than my previous school. I had small classes because I was doing A levels but the year group even at VI form was much bigger and more anonymous. I would have known every single person at my girls school. My house cohort in my year group at boarding school was the size of all of UVI at the girls school! It was a bigger and tougher (it was all boys til VI form) school.

@BasiliskStare- Tim-nice-but-dim wouldn't work in a "better" (by which I assume you mean rigourously academic) private school because he wouldn't have got in there in the first place. Tims don't go to Winchester, for example. Tims go to Stowe or other schools which are known for turning out well rounded pupils. The problem is that whilst private education has always been a business, schools like that are now becoming less prevalent. I went to a lovely school that turned out nice people, many of whom did well academically but plenty of whom did pretty averagely but had a lovely time at school. It's now becoming a brains factory under a new head. He's been quite unfair to the pupils caught between the regimes and the school has lost a good deal of atmosphere. Success at what cost? There are Tims at top schools like Eton because they pass minimum entry reqs and their parents can pay. They're just not the ones who set the world alight so they aren't in the public eye. Prince Harry is probably a good example, he'd be a tnbd if he wasn't a prince.

@HairyToity- you get bad apples at every level in society though, that's human nature and education isn't much to do with it. Wrt to people not having glittering careers, how life pans out isn't always straight forward. I can see your point but I don't think education is ever wasted. Someone in a dead end job could change paths or pick education back up later in life and may find their private schooling put them at an advantage. I do acknowledge that there will always be a small minority of people who this doesn't apply to, though. To some extent, that's life.

Prince Harry is probably a good example, he'd be a tnbd if he wasn't a prince.

This is very rude and unfair, you don't know the bloke neither do we know what life experiences or life skills he would have acquired if he was not a prince !

However much people pretend and make excuses, the primary reason for sending a child to private school is snobbery. If you are going to privately educate your child then go ahead, but please stop lying to yourself and your friends about 'musical or sporting opportunities' (all of which can take place out of school btw) and just admit it's because you think little Jenny or Johnny are better than all those 'common children' and you'd really rather they didn't have to mix with them.

@Grumpyoldpersonwithcats
As a rule I don't swear, in real life or on here unless I am quoting someone but I will make an exception with regards to your comment.

What total and utter BOLLOCKS!! There are many different reasons for people to choose to send their children to private school, some are certainly due to snobbery, most are not. Have you spoken to the parents of every single child in every private school and asked them their reasons (or would you just presume they were lying if they didn't admit to wanting to be superior to everyone else?)? No, then get a grip and open your eyes!! My lovely friend (now grown up) got a fully-paid boarding scholarship to a private school purely through talent. Oh, and the reason she was put forward for it wasn't because her parents were snobs, it was that her dad died suddenly and her penniless mother had a breakdown and couldn't cope with her at home. So take your judgmental opinions and stick them, well, never mind where, I've sworn once.

Gotta go - some of the comments on this thread have come from a place of snobbery

@Vulpine
SOME being the pertinent word there though! As I put in my post, SOME people surely send their child to private school for the snob value.

SOME is not ALL.

“you get bad apples at every level in society though, that's human nature”

Funny how nobody ever says this about “bad apples” at state schools!!

Funny how nobody ever says this about “bad apples” at state schools!! the problem with state schools Is that their hands are tied when dealing with the chavvy thuggish kids. The forces of political correctness means they can’t expel any more which means Jayden can wander around thumping people with impunity getting rewarded when he manages to go 30 minutes without throwing a chair.

I don't see how that's unfair. I'm saying if the only difference in his life is the loss of his title and public interest, he'd be one of the many perfectly nice boys with passable grades that Eton turns out that go on to good but not Oxbridge unis and go on to a decent but anonymous career. Harry has a natural affinity for the forces and went on to do that. If he wasn't PRINCE Harry, he'd just be another public school boy in the military. They're not necessarily dim, but they aren't the ones who go on to PPE at Oxford and a career on the front benches or become a captain of industry or a leader in their academic field, which is the sort of result that a more recent breed of private school parent expects and pushes for.

There were drugs at my ds sink estate state school. A child from dd school just expelled for drugs.
Not heard of any knives at dd school but they are boarders so different environment.
Lots of teenage pregnancies in our state schools here. One of ds schools hardly had any girls left past y10. my other ds had half a dozen leave.
The nearest grammar about 20 miles away had several girls leave due to pregnancy and also drug problems.
As for pictures of willies, well, I've not heard of a school where it hasn't happened including year 6 of our Faith primary schools.

Funny how nobody ever says this about “bad apples” at state schools!! the problem with state schools Is that their hands are tied when dealing with the chavvy thuggish kids. The forces of political correctness means they can’t expel any more which means Jayden can wander around thumping people with impunity getting rewarded when he manages to go 30 minutes without throwing a chair.

On a different thread i said i was agnostic as to whether i prefer comprehensive or selective state education. However, the only way to prevent the example above from destroying children's education is to select academically.

What's so great about private school? Never been to one, but I'd imagine it's 2 factors: 1) smaller classes so more attention is given to each pupil (and that, in turn, encourages them to think they matter and what they think matters - which has a huge impact in adult life) and 2) wealth of parents implies no sort of problems in a family which create aggressive, violent children - the kind you see in socially disadvantaged areas/social classes. Put it simply, private school kids are less likely to bring a knife to school or bully your kid or threaten a teacher. These problems are sadly far too widespread in some areas.

The disadvantage of private school, as I see it, is that they are almost all religious. I don't know what's going on in Bedales; the last time I read it was founded in mid-20th cent. by Bertrand Russell and his wife Dora, but I don't know if has some secular/humanist ethic these days.

I also think that private schools go on because the state ones fail to do what they should, due to lack of funding and interest from the government (whose members have been mostly privately educated). People move houses, relocate miles and miles to places with good state schools, and I've seen far too many results of state education on social fora: namely, people can't fucking spell to save their lives.

Bertrand, I'm not sure what you mean there? There are nice and nasty people in all walks of life and in every workplace and social setting, regardless of where they come from. That's all I was saying. I don't automatically write people off for going to a state school!