To be disappointed that people who should know better are minimising grooming?

[GunpowderGelatine]

After watching the Leaving Neverland documentary, in which I 100% believe the victims (I mean come on MJ was the most obvious pedophile ever!) I posted a link to a Guardian article that stated that if MJ was alive they'd be sure a jury these days would find him guilty. I accompanied with "I believe the victims". I don't usually post these kinds of things on social media but I'm disappointed that so many people on my friends list have bleated on about his innocence whilst admitting they haven't watched the documentary.

A friend commented to say that both the boys in the documentary previously stated they'd never been touched by MJ and are therefore liars. When I replied to essentially say that the power of grooming, they were coerced into lying for the man who abused them but who they also love, she replied saying it's BS, they're after money. This friend is a "superfan". She's also a year 2 teacher. She teaches children the same age as Jackson's victims, and I'm shocked that she's denying the effects of grooming. I'm extremely tempted to ask her if one of her pupils said they were sleeping in the same bed as a perfect stranger, a single man who is successful and buys them presents and gives them envelopes of cash, would she make a safeguarding referral?

I guess I'm so disappointed that people are still deluded and dazzled because he was a legendary musician - as if being good at your job and being an abuser are mutually exclusive. But I certainly expected better from an infant teacher

We do know the truth *momo", he was a morally corrupt paedophile. Anyone weighing up the available evidence would come to that conclusion, even someone who isnt very intelligent, as you so charmingly put it. The only way you wouldn't is if you had some fucked up agenda connected with being a MJ fan.

Momo what is your source for Wade harassing Gavin?

I posted the source earlier, it's on the website I shared called the daily Michael. It has copies of a lot of the testimonies and court evidence.

@Calpop don't talk stupid. You wasn't there anymore then I was. He was never convicted, as it stands it's an allegation as no convictions. I've posted the links to evidence numerous times now but a lot of posters seem to think they know better then the justice system, going from a few one sided documentaries only. I'm leaving this thread and blocking it, it's very bias and nobody has once acknowledged anything that contradicts the accusations as this is more about people been right then abuse or false allegations.

@Momo18 you can't block threads I'm afraid.

But your link had no evidence at all. Read the Reddit one posted earlier it's fascinated.

And and BTW conviction rates for sex crimes sit at around 3%. So do you think 97% of accusers are lying or do you think societal issues contribute to a shockingly low rate?

@Momo18 you're the one that sounds stupid I'm afraid. You really should think about why you are choosing to believe that MJ was innocent in the face of overwhelming evidence that he was not.

Here's another boy accusing him of sexual abuse that's not widely reported:

"Gavin Arvizo wasn’t the only witness to accuse Jackson of molesting him. So did Jason Francia, the son of Jackson’s former maid, who broke down in tears as he testified that Jackson used to molest him during tickling sessions, and would give him $100 after each incident. Francia was asked on cross-examination if he had ever received money from Jackson.

“Other than the money he put down my pants?” he replied.

The defense tried to show he was unreliable because his mother had sought money from Jackson before. She reached an out-of-court settlement with Jackson for a reported $2 million in 1993."

So we're up to, what, 6 now? All lying? All after money? come on!

After watching Leaving Neverland, I've now re watched the Martin Bashir documentary and the Oprah programme with the audience of survivors . It ia all so obvious now. The fact that he looks straight into camera and adnits to having 2 nose jobs, that's it, no other work at all! The fact that he insists the children are created from his sperm cells! (They are white). The fact that he spouts all that BS about loving children and people judging him! He was an out and out liar. He groomed everyone with his childlike 'milk and cookies' crap. The FBI found illicit material and photos of naked boys? So which was he? How the hell can anyone believe anything he said?

Also the grainy footage and interview with store security corroborates Safechucks story of shopping for wedding rings.

www.thedailybeast.com/leaving-neverland-director-dan-reed-compares-michael-jackson-truthers-to-corbynites

Interesting interview with Leaving Neverland director Dan Reed here in which he,quite successfully I think, refutes a lot of the so-called evidence the Jackson family and MJ obsessives have been coming out with since the film's release.

@Momo18 Lets be honest; apart from Chantal he basically never had girls over there to stay, and never one to one, you never saw a girl with him on tour like you did with boys, holding his hands while on tour. Be honest here.

@Momo18 "daily Michael"
Oh for eff sake! How can you be taken seriously. If it is mjfacts.com then that would be different.

@Momo18 "nobody has once acknowledged anything that contradicts the accusations"

Er, because maybe there are no contradictions?

@Momo18 you don't think weird he had close friendships with children - boys, who after a certain age were no longer 'special'. Even if you accept that these men and sexual abuse accusations are false. Presence of child porn, naked pictures of boys states otherwise. Obviously - that he had sexual interest in boys, which in itself enough. Anyone stating otherwise should be kept away from children

I would also be really concerned about this year 2 teacher’s understanding of and attitude to grooming, and her comments on social media about it.

The Daily Michael. I would laugh if people like Momo weren't so biased and unhinged that they could actually give that 'site' as evidence of anything, and expect to be given a shred of credibility.

The Daily Michael?!?? Are you fucking kidding me?!?? Face palm Head desk. FMD! I bet he believes all their doctored fake 'evidence', lies, half-truths and false claims on there, too.

The Daily Michael. Fuck me dead. This is an alternate universe where unhinged stupidity and bias is the order of the day.

I have never met an adult man who was child like enough to share a bed with young children innocently unless they have severe learning difficulties.

That's a disgusting thing to say both about men and those with learning disabilities. Are you saying that every father you've met couldn't be trusted to share a bed with their kids?

@busybarbara do you not see the difference with sharing a bed with your child and someone's else's unrelated to you?

I recently saw some footage of MJ with Lisa Marie Presley. Their body language around each other was weird and awkward, not at all what you would expect of a newly married couple.

I remember a weird staged kiss between MJ and Lisa Marie at some awards show. The only time Michael had a beard it seems

I was abused at the same age. I probably would have lied in court at the same age they did. I was blamed, too. Its shit.

How anybody thinks that freak was innocent is beyond me. He was a pathological liar and so many spent so long brown nosing him he thought he was above the law. What in earth their parents were thinking, I have no idea (but then as PP said Abducted in Plain Sight shows how fucking stupid some people really are).
Sad thing is it turns out he was.
Robson and Safechuck aren't lying. It's very plain to see. What a waste of childhood.

Momo with respect I don’t think that is the most impartial or accurate site.

Are you saying that every father you've met couldn't be trusted to share a bed with their kids?

No, @busybarbara, that's clearly not what she's saying.

Michael Jackson wasn't these boys' father. Surely you realise this crucial point.

luna I have also linked to that site on at least one occasion on one of the three concurrent threads - whilst stating firmly it was a pro Jackson site, whoever posted about the legalities of the lawsuits knew their stuff, and unless you have good reason to question the legitimacy of the court documents they linked to, then impartial or not (clue:it's not) the accuracy of the interpretation of the court documents correct.
I understand that emotions run high on the topic and I believe that Jackson was to all probabilities guilty (I would have said this on a civil suit jury) but there are inconsistencies if you read all the documents and the misinformation from both sides on four threads is deeply depressing. Did your friend ever get back to you about the two payouts you stated as fact were paid on top of Chandler/Francia's?
Because there's the thing - all the people on all four threads who claim they feel/believe/know something as a fact - scare me shitless that they will ever be cal!ed for jury service. In a civil suit fair enough, the burden of proof is lower but for a criminal case you have to sieve through every damned detail and some posters are not prepared to do that (on both sides).

I remember a weird staged kiss between MJ and Lisa Marie at some awards show. The only time Michael had a beard it seems

I read an interview with her and she was absolutely adamant that from her point of view it was a genuine marriage. It’s not like she needed the money is it? The impression I got about it was that he targeted her when the child abuse allegations came up so he had a cover. He seemed to play on her feelings about her father by comparing his situation and her Dad’s and pointing out the similarities between them so Lisa Marie felt that she could rescue him in would in some way be preventing him ending up like her Dad and redeem herself from what had happened to her father in some way.

She said they split because he was pressuring her to get pregnant and saying that if she wouldn’t Debbie Rowe had said she would carry his baby instead. She said she wanted to be ‘sure’ before she had the baby because she didn’t want to end up in a custody battle with him so she gave him an ultimatum that he had to stop taking drugs and get rid of his hangers on. He refused so she left him.

The only plausible reason I can think of that she would have bearded for him was if he had offered to convert to Scientology in return for a beard which Scientologists are reputed to have done for a few gay celebrities as it gives them a means of control to keep them in the church by hiding that they’re gay.

Interestingly she didn’t think he’d done anything wrong but she reported her fourth husband for having hundreds of images of CSE on his laptop. Their twins were briefly taken into care because of the allegations but I’m not sure that anything came of it.