"Those saying the OP is unreasonable and putting her political opinions before the interests of her daughter, would you still say that if she was a practising Muslim woman?" Exactly!
Or previously been a victim of abuse?
Op doesn't need to say why this is important but there are several perfectly good reasons other than political ideology (which in this case I also consider a good reason actually) why this might be the case.
"I would ask for reassurance from the leaders that they are supervised at all time." How do they achieve that? The leaders need to sleep too. Trust me running these events is exhausting!
It's not just about BEING safe, it's also about FEELING safe, the emotional wellbeing of such young children is also hugely important.
"I thought we were talking about sleeping in the same tent, not getting changed together"
Where do you THINK they're getting dressed?! There won't be enough room or time for them all to be getting changed in the toilets!
It's ludicrous and as someone who was in the GG in various membership forms for decades inc as a uniformed leader I am HUGELY disappointed and angered on their stance on this!
"If it is a brownie sleepover, it will be girls aged 7-10 closely supervised by leaders" you're missing the point COMPLETELY the GG are saying that it's NOT guaranteed it's only girls, they're saying there may be boys there who "identify" as girls but they won't have done anything medically yet to transition, simply boys in girls clothes. It may even include mtf transgender ADULT leaders - and we KNOW that there are sexual predators ALREADY exploiting the current trans agenda in order to gain access to victims.
"it would be a male Dbs checked leader, rare, or even rarer a trans girl" dbs checks are no guarantee - especially if they're being done against a "false" name which has also already happened.
"And ask, too, why these spaces, which predominantly protect girls and women, are being eroded." Totally agree
"if your worried volunteer & go with them?" Not a valid option if the reasons are medical or legal (eg foster child with restrictions for their safety). Doing this could be in breach of a court order.
"This year our numbers are down considerably. I am wondering if threads like this one, plus M Jackson being exposed (rightly so) are a factor." The numbers are more likely down due to GG NOT taking parents GENUINE SAFEGUARDING concerns and restrictions due to medical/legal reasons and non disclosure of trans members being present (they don't need to be personally identified, NO good reason why GG couldn't have a policy where they say whether a trans person may or may not be present) SERIOUSLY! Frankly it's worrying you can't see that!
Lovemusic33 so the links to trans id'ing abusers and peer on peer abuse have COMPLETELY escaped you then?
Scouts have a far better and clearer policy on this and have since admitting girls been very careful to work hard to prevent abuse occurring (doesn't mean it hasn't though. You have a very worryingly complacent attitude on this)
To ALL those saying "they're in a big marquee with loads of other people around" I can ASSURE you csa CAN and DOES occur in the presence and view of others. Ffs there's even filmed footage that was broadcast of Savile doing so! Iirc more than 1 incident.
Abuse isn't always blatant and extreme, and doesn't have to be to be hugely damaging.
"I do get the wider issue, and would be unhappy if we were talking about older children/ teens." What about 10 almost 11 year olds well into puberty? Because brownies START at 7 but they don't move up to guides until at least 10.
For the hard of reading
peer on peer (meaning children abusing children in lay terms) abuse at this age is NOT uncommon
"And guides is the same. That ok too?" Exactly - teenagers going through puberty and all that entails - especially for girls - is not being acknowledged or properly handled. It's a fucking disgrace!
"GG are breaking the law. They have been told to make their mixed sex status clear but are choosing not to.
Stop lying
100% this!
"There's only, what, maybe a couple of hundred kids that would be sexually abused each year if we stopped with all this silly safeguarding nonsense, I can't believe we ever thought it was worth while." Commendable statement but try a couple of thousand. Many victims don't disclose to law enforcement or social services which form the "official" stats but informal, mainly charitable organisations (nspcc, childline, rape crisis) to whom victims are far more likely to disclose say the number of victims is FAR higher than "official" stats
"I think YABU, and there’s a lot of catastrophising on this thread about the threat from transwomen. I don’t think Girl Guides can actually do anything better here, unless they check their volunteers’ biological sex, which would be hugely intrusive" completely disagree - a child's right to reasonable safeguarding FAR outweighs another child's and especially an adults right to protection from potential what? Embarrassment? Give me strength!