AIBU to be sad that my DD can’t go on a brownie sleepover?

[Only13percentleft]

NC’d for this as it is identifying.

My DD is a Brownie and loves going each week with her friends. Her Brown Owl has asked if the girls would like to go on a region organised sleepover where lots of Brownies sleepover at a theme park and then have a fun day on the rides together.

A bit of back history first. After receiving the Girlguiding email in September (about the inclusion of trans women/girls in the organisation) I wrote to Girlguiding asking if they would still be offering single sex sleeping arrangements (as they are now a single gender organisation) as I didn’t want my DD to be sharing with the opposite sex on residentials. They ‘reassured’ me that they would look to accommodate any request that helps a girl feel more comfortable saying that ‘this has included organising separate facilities for anyone who needs them.’

Fast forward to this sleepover, only 4 months later. I aske d Brown Owl if she could guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation for my DD. She contacted Girlguiding who are organising the sleepover. It has taken them nearly 6 weeks to come back to her but the long and short of it is that they can’t guarantee single sex sleeping accommodation. They’re going to be sleeping in large marquees with lots of different people from different units.

I’m really sad for my DD who now cannot attend this event. She needs to be in single sex sleeping accommodation and this can’t be guaranteed.


And if anyone asks why I’m posting this now, it is to make other people aware of this situation, especially as sleepovers are being organised for the summer. Girlguiding do not make it explicitly clear that single sex sleeping accommodation is not their default position. They do not say on their permission forms that you may be sleeping in the same space as someone of the opposite sex. Leaders are also not allowed to tell you if this is/is not the case.

[RiverTam]

Nessie but a Muslim family may well choose GG precisely because it is single sex. GG have changed that without publicising it (and sacked the whistleblower).

GG need to make it fully clear that they are no longer a single sex organization so that parents and girls can make a fully informed decision whether or not to allow their DD to join.

[RiverTam]

Peer-on-peer abuse, predominantly boy-on-girl, accounts for a third of child sexual abuse cases.

[LeekMunchingSheepShagger]

The oldest children there will be 10. I don't see any issue with boys and girls sharing at Brownie age.

[BishopBrennansArse]

I would have concerns in small tents, however in large marquees with numerous others the risk seems lower imho.

If you're going to get predators they won't do it in such a public area - hidden areas are more likely and it doesn't matter what the sleeping arrangements are in that case.

[Penguincake]

You are 100% right. It is disgraceful the way that Girl Guiding has a total disregard for safeguarding.

[Fazackerley]

Of course the risk is low. Negligible really. But it's still a risk. Girls have traditionally had single sex spaces. Those posters saying the op is being silly need to ask themselves why we have single sex spaces at all.

[GottaGoGottaGo]

How old is she (must be under 10.5 if she is in Brownies I think?) and why does she HAVE to be in single sex accommodation? I can't imagine anything untoward happening in a large marquee... Kids of Brownie age, male or female are rarely capable of even thinking about their differences, much less doing anything about it!

As far as I can tell YABVVU unless there is more to this than you are telling us. Please don't make your daughter miss out for what is a total non-issue.

[Schmoozer]

If it is a brownie sleepover, it will be girls aged 7-10 closely supervised by leaders
Leaders don’t leave themselves open to difficulties, they should not be on their own with child, even as a female leader. You stay in plain sight for everyone’s safeguarding.
If there is males there, it would be a male Dbs checked leader, rare, or even rarer a trans girl
I think you should let her go, if she wants to, check out their risk assessments for peice if mind and take the political point about males in girls safe spaces like GG up too.

[RomanyQueen1]

YABU. she can go, you aren't letting her.
Mine is an Explorer she often sleeps in close proximity to boys, and I have no idea if there are any trans in other groups they meet up with.

[Fazackerley]

Fwiw, dd went on a primary school residential when she was 10. Boys and girls slept separately. I think that's normal.

[DuckbilledSplatterPuff]

These events often need parent helpers. Why don't you volunteer to go with her?

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Thank you RiverTam - I had thought of medical considerations, but of course you are right - there may be religious ones, too.

[CordeliaEarhart]

she can go, you aren't letting her

You simply do not know this. Unfortunately, some children have already been the victims of sexual abuse by the age of 10 and absolutely need single sex accommodation.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Of course the risk is low. Negligible really. But it's still a risk. Girls have traditionally had single sex spaces. Those posters saying the op is being silly need to ask themselves why we have single sex spaces at all

And ask, too, why these spaces, which predominantly protect girls and women, are being eroded.

[10IAR]

The posters saying OP is being silly seem to be of the opinion that the erosion of single sex spaces for girls and women isn't an issue.

Or they haven't a clue what's happening in the country right now and the risks it poses.

[Morgan12]

You aren't letting her go. That's why she can't go. You seriously think there is any sort of risk in this situation? Really? If so I'd love to know what it is.

[Skittlesss]

Ask them how many non-female persons will be there.

[JaffacakesAreCakesNotBiscuits]

When my ds done cub scouts they did camps indoors in big halls with both sexes in same room. Leader in room next door.

[10IAR]

Ask them how many non-female persons will be there

GG policy states they won't disclose that, whether it's a child or a leader.

[DrPeppersPhD]

Before everyone jumps on the OP I think we need to know WHY she feels her DD needs single sex accommodation. I agree that the risks seem negligible, but there may be a medical reason for it.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

I can't think of another time when parents being told that they cannot be told who their daughters will be sharing sleeping space with would be cnsidered absolutely fine and dandy!

That hole in safeguarding has had a fully loaded lorry driven through it... and some of you think it's all fine!

I can't even begin to point out the obvious, let's just start with the name David 'Balloo' Challenor... Google him!

[Only13percentleft]

There are many reasons why DD could need single sex accommodation. As mentioned, it could be for religion, it could be because she’s been a victim of sexual assault, it could be because she’s a foster daughter who has been told by the LA that she must always be in this accommodation, it could be because she just doesn’t feel comfortable. It is one of these reasons but I’m not going into it on a public forum.

As someone else said, at Beavers they were given the choice and the arrangements were made with consent. Girlguiding don’t tell you it is happening. They will not tell me if any non female people will/will not be there. It is very secretive, which is a safeguarding risk. Girlguiding though are not interested so DD will be limited to sleepovers with just her unit who I know well.

And DD does understand why she can’t go and will look forward to doing something special with me to make up for it.

[Confusedbeetle]

I think Brownies are too young to go on sleepovers

[RiverTam]

Yes, our Brown Owl told me should would be unable to confirm if any male person identifying as female would be on a camp. She looked pretty unhappy at this state of affairs.

But clearly they do know and understand the issues given the amount of info supplied when a man went along to a camp.

In another thread someone used the phrase 'sacred caste' to describe trans identifying people, and that is exactly right - as soon as the identity is trans that person is a saint who can do no wrong and cannot be challenged in any way, shape or form.

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

When my ds done cub scouts they did camps indoors in big halls with both sexes in same room. Leader in room next door. and every parent knew that would be the arrangement. All parents could make an informed decision.

GGs have taken the decision NOT TO TELL PARENTS. There is a difference!