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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

961 replies

UnexpectedButExpected · 08/03/2019 19:34

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

Sad
OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 08/03/2019 20:38

Why are some people so certain she wasn’t groomed/brainwashed?

DanglyBangly · 08/03/2019 20:38

Losing three babies in a row seems unusual, even allowing for the fact she’s been living in a war zone and refugee camp.

Sitdownstandup · 08/03/2019 20:38

Those are the Yazidi captives and the sex slaves though Gregory, are they not?

JacquesHammer · 08/03/2019 20:39

Why are some people so certain she wasn’t groomed/brainwashed?

Anti-Islam sentiment

HighlightsandHeels · 08/03/2019 20:40

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ginghambox · 08/03/2019 20:40

Why are some people so certain she wasn’t groomed/brainwashed?
You know very well why.

ILoveBray · 08/03/2019 20:40

When do people start taking responsibility for their own actions?

All the posters who are saying that this woman needs sympathy and help....this is the life she chose. She's 19, and adult now, and she STILL supports ISIS.

If we're going to go along with the reason is that she is actually innocent because she was groomed and radicalised, then surely that makes the woman who allegedly groomed her innocent too. And the one before that, and the one before that. Where does it end?

Also, if she was so concerned for her child, she could have surrendered him to the British government. She didn't. Why? Because it wouldn't have helped her.

WithAllIntenseAndPurposes · 08/03/2019 20:41

Bye then meringue
If you can't accept people won't be heartbroken about one less person plotting to maim and kill those enjoying their freedom our great grandparents and their generation fought and many died for them you're right, Mumsnet isn't the place for you

TheGirlWhoLived · 08/03/2019 20:41

An anti-Islam sentiment and an anti-isis sentiment are not the same thing

BertrandRussell · 08/03/2019 20:41

“Why are some people so certain she wasn’t groomed/brainwashed?
You know very well why.”

Racism? Misogyny?

JRMisOdious · 08/03/2019 20:42

It would be unnatural not to feel incredibly sad. Poor little soul didn’t stand a chance in those horrible circumstances, none of them do.

SeigneurLapindeGrantham · 08/03/2019 20:42

I'm not convinced she had a baby let alone 3. It's been reported that she had 2 other children who died of maluntrition. She certainly doesn't look undernourished and according to visual media reports she has had at some point , time to paint her nails

WithAllIntenseAndPurposes · 08/03/2019 20:43

I'm anti people plotting to kill others at places they should be free to enjoy without fear. I want a world where everyone is able to go about their daily life without being blown to smithereens by sick bastards. Do not make it a race issues it's bloody tiresome and old

HomeMadeMadness · 08/03/2019 20:43

@AmIRightOrAMeringue

I agree. The girl was groomed online. If the girl had been groomed online and ended up sex trafficked or abused people would be up in arms against anyone victim blaming her.

Monestasi · 08/03/2019 20:43

There is much outrage and upset on this thread...

Yet we have no proof of the truth of her claims.

How can we know that she has had 3 children who are now dead.

Marcipex · 08/03/2019 20:43

I agree the timing seems very convenient...but three pregnancies in four years is surely quite likely.
I read that the Dutch authorities DNA test returning fighters and their children as its not uncommon to pick up a stranded orphan to take home, not out of pity but to get better accommodation, benefits etc.

Sitdownstandup · 08/03/2019 20:43

Also, if she was so concerned for her child, she could have surrendered him to the British government.

She couldn't. There isn't any British government representative to surrender him to in Syria and we, understandably, said we didn't want to put any lives at risk to rescue her. In practical terms there's nothing she could actually have done at this stage.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 08/03/2019 20:44

IT WAS A BABY

You think it's OK to celebrate an innocent baby dying on the off-chance it grows up to be a terrorist?

Genuinely sickened

jacks11 · 08/03/2019 20:44

Of course it's sad that this baby died. I can feel sympathy for the mother, it is a horrible thing for any mother to go through once, let alone three times.

However, she didn't seek to return after her 1st or 2nd child died and the only reason she wanted home recently was because of the fact that the caliphate failed. I don't think the fact she was pregnant, or had a baby, or even now that her son has very sadly died, should mean she gets treated differently to anyone else who has done the same thing as she has. Having a baby or being pregnant should not gain her advantage over anyone else in the same situation.

That said, I'm not sure stripping her of her citizenship was the right thing, even though the fact she still doesn't really renounce what IS stood for or condemn their barbaric and inhuman treatment of so many people does make her a difficult person to feel any real sympathy for (in the wider sense). I just think we've pushed our problem onto another country, however much I would prefer people who hold her beliefs did not set foot in this country. Although, I would not advocate putting British service personnel at risk to get her out- she would have to go through the usual channels of getting to a consulate and seeking assistance (and there isn't one in the camp or Syria, for that matter). If she returned, she would have to be investigated and potentially prosecuted for any crimes she has committed. And then watched very carefully on release to make sure she did not pose any threat.

However, where's the concern for the many, many other babies and children who have died in the refugee camps and as a result of the war in the region? Where is the sorrow for their mothers, if they still live? Not many are advocating doing anything meaningful to help those innocent children, mothers or families. A whiff of hypocrisy, I think.

What about all people slaughtered, tortured and raped by IS? Or all the children left orphaned and traumatised? Nope, not so much handwringing going on for them either.

Farahilda · 08/03/2019 20:45

Surely the comparison should not be to the 400 British/EU nationals who have returned. But to the 100 when gave not come back, because they held or were entitled to another nationality?

PurpleDaisies · 08/03/2019 20:45

Losing three babies in a row seems unusual, even allowing for the fact she’s been living in a war zone and refugee camp.

Look at infant death statistics for third world countries. That’s sadly not unusual in the slightest. We are very privileged in this vobtty

YogaWannabe · 08/03/2019 20:45

Anti-Islam sentiment

What tripe! I have fought tooth and nail for Muslims in my community to be granted permission to build a mosque they are finding themselves- must as I dislike all organized religions personally.

You want to imagine we’re all big thicko Dailymail types because it suits your narrative.
Women’s rights are extremely important to me and if you advanced search me that may be telling (not sure how long it’s been since I’ve NN)

This girl sought out an organization who were inciting terror, who bombed an arena full of children, killed countless Muslims. She left her own country to join them and has still shown no remorse.
The killers of Jamie Bulger were ten years old, this person was 15- way above the age of responsibility.
There’s no evidence to say she was groomed, you can’t just whip that out as an excuse for repugnant behavior because she’s a female!

PurpleDaisies · 08/03/2019 20:45

^country

Birdsgottafly · 08/03/2019 20:46

"This isn’t someone who was star-struck by e.g. the attentions ooof an older man this is someone who was attracted by the idea of going out to a foreign country and participating and celebrating in the murder of innocent women and children."

Her Mother was ill, she was passed around in the Family. Her Mother died, she was sent to live with an Uncle, who sent her to a school that had extremist views, as did he. He made her pray for hours. But he couldn't be over ruled. At the same time she was targeted by two Women (they were arrested), who were recruiting for Isis.

They befriended her amd told her that they could provide what she desperately wanted, a stable Family.

A lot of people and children were radicalised and groomed over that year. There was fault in the Government amd Police's in-action.

There are Doctors, from organisations such as, Doctors without Borders, Save the Children etc working in the camps. One was in tears as he described his typical day, in one interview.

They are the people who confirmed the deaths of her two other children, along with the deaths of lots of Women and Children.

Bluestitch · 08/03/2019 20:46

I'm not convinced she had a baby let alone 3. It's been reported that she had 2 other children who died of maluntrition. She certainly doesn't look undernourished

I have to say I thought the same thing.

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