Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

[UnexpectedButExpected]

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

Well she decided to go so her decision led to everything that's happened to her and she is paying the price for that decision.

She wasn't born in the area and suddenly found herself trying to survive. She decided that the much publicised, barbaric behaviour etc was the right thing for her and she wanted to join in.

This thread is beocming more and more absurd! It requires far more active effort and choice to seek out information online, plan your future ISIS fighter husband, fly to Syria on someone else’s passport and cross borders, than to carry on getting up and go to school every day.

“How on earth do you deduce that Syrian people’s views on Begum are irrelevant? They’re the most bloody relevant views in existence.”
Really? I would imagine many of them would go for summary execution. Quite understandably. Would you go for that?

She is not just a collateral.

She deserves same like the others. They should all be tried there so locals whose lives they helped to ruin get the justice. However, it's understandable that Syria would rather send them to be tried in their countries since trials and imprisonment would cost money they simply don't have.
Frankly she is just lucky they haven't found proper evidence against her yet. Which might never happen considering witnesses are probably dead...

Young teen - give me strength. Silly little tart - harsh but fair. And, for once, I agree with you @Xenia.

“Frankly she is just lucky they haven't found proper evidence against her yet.“ Evidence of what? We have plenty of evidence of her being a member of a terrorist organisation.

Well you yourself say summary execution would be understandable, @Bertrand.

No. I said them wanting summary execution would be understandable. Rather different.

silly little tart

What even is that? What's a tart?

A pastry case with a jam or fruit filling.

She can’t be both a silly little tart and a criminal mastermind who’s a serious threat to this country, surely?

'Silly little tart' - kind of a contradiction when describing a young woman who has become a devout Muslim and fully covers herself.

So the opinions of the victims of some of the worst atrocities on record are only relevant if Bertrand personally approves of the punishment they might want. That's alot of arrogance in the correctness of your views.

She’s a terrorist who condones rape, torture and murder. Let’s just stick with that fact.

instead of being just more collateral along with her poor babies
Do what?

The people that I feel sorry for are the innocent people - yes her children but also the innocent people in Syria, and the people murdered around the world by the terrorists that she supported. I'll reserve my sympathy for them. The ones that had no choice whatsoever - the people travelling to work who were blown up on the tube or the bus, the people mown down, the people going to concerts or on planes - they had no choice.

She can’t be both a silly little tart and a criminal mastermind who’s a serious threat to this country, surely? She's neither of those things imo.
But she is a radicalised young woman who wishes us ill. She put herself in the spotlight and tried to get back to the UK which anyone would have tried to do. But just remember she stayed in the caliphate until it fell.

And, as much as I disagree with the death sentence, if summary execution is the law in Syria then that's what she agreed to when she went there. Same as British people who commit crimes in other countries - they face the penalty in that country. Sometimes they are much harsher than they are here. Maybe she should have thought about that before now?

Not sure wanting to uphold the rule of law is exactly arrogant.......

I cant see how SB can be described as 'collateral' if I'm honest. As previous PPs have said, you have to actively seek out this kind of material; and then you have to have a particular frame of mind to allow you see it as your potential future, with your jihadi husband, and inshallah, your babies. This is completely different from the grooming experienced by the girls in Rotherham - the first was a willingness to be radicalised, the second a product of exploitative people looking for young female flesh.

She should never have expected to be 'rescued'; she put herself there and by her own account seemed to like it; her (alleged) babies died - that's awful, and terrible, but so did so many others, not to mention the experience of the other women who didnt sign up to ISIS and were raped/beaten/killed/tortured.

Quite honestly, I couldnt care less if I never heard about her again, unless it was to say that she had died, either from some camp illness (and remember, she's relatively lucky to be in that camp, so many other innocents never got that far) or a final attack.

But you’re not wanting to uphold the rule of law if it’s summary execution in Syria.

Not sure wanting to uphold the rule of law is exactly arrogant

Capital punishment is legal in Syria, one of the qualifying offences is terrorism.

Capital punishment is not the same as summary execution. And is capital punishment the sentence for being a member of a terrorist organisation or for active acts of terrorism?

We do sometimes intervene if the punishment in other countries is harsher than what the UK would impose e.g. death penalty. However iirc precedent has already been set with the UK allowing 2 of the IS ‘beatles’ to be extradited and potentially face the death penalty in the US without interventions on the level of punishment - despite appeals from the parent of one of the terrorists.

Joining ISIS is a capital offence apparently.

Superb post Bejam

Comprehensive and comprehensible.