Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

[UnexpectedButExpected]

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

As for her citizenship; for better or worse, she was born and raised in the UK, and if it were possible to extricate her, it would be better to have her face UK justice in the UK.

Why? Any crimes she committed were committed in Syria against Syrians/Yazidis. Let the Syrians decide what her fate should be just as the Egyptians decided the fate of Laura Plummer for breaking the law in Egypt. People are normally tried and jailed in the country that they commit their crimes. Why should SB be any different?

I wasnt saying that, you have deliberately chosen to.see that instead of what I was saying.

I was talking about whos leading, driving and doing the forcing, and terrorising, of the women as well. The brides.

You have chosen to sbe obtuse about what I've written and interpret it as me blaming you for supporting.

Nowhere did I say that. So stop twisting my actual words.

That's not what I thought, and not what i wrote, just in case you weren't clear

If I thought that I'd have written you all support male Isis. How ridiculous frankly!!!

How much she could have done!

The Yazidi women who have managed to escape ISIS have said that the ISIS brides are very much participants in the genocide rape and torture.

You were trying to imply that somehow women terrorists are not responsible for their crimes. Why else write that post

An interesting thing Ive seen in today’s papers, Begums family are begging the UK for mercy & pleading that she be allowed back. The main spokesperson seems to be her Dad, who lives in Bangladesh

Dungeon- it’s pretty clear that a small number of posters have been completely taken in. They’ve seen the Shamima headlines, and suddenly taken an interest in the story because it involves a tiny baby and a 19 year old woman. It’s more convenient to respond emotionally to one child rather than take the time and invest the intelligence enagaging in the far wider issues

No I wasn't
Also don't appreciate the shouting thanks, totally unnecessary and extreme.

I was pointing to the driving force and who is actually responsible for babies dying, all the rape and atrocity. I am saying that women in such an environment are not the drivers of atrocity, they are brain-washed, radicalised and yes, they are party to it, but she was a child when all this started, she's had 3 babies die, gone through those pregnancies, given birth, this is the norm for 'these wives', their babies are just breeding for soldiers.

There's a lot of talk on this thread as if the women are running this shit-show.

Tymp has a lot of supporters and people in his pocket, but he's the one weilding the power (lying, corrupting, abusing women)

And it cannot be said enough times: every terrorist has been radicalised at some point, many no doubt from a far younger age than Begum. Just as a high proportion of abusers were themselves abused as children. And a high proportion of murderers have a dysfunctional background. It is not an excuse. There is a minimum age of criminal responsibility for a reason.

And Begum was better off than many people: by all accounts she is a fairly intelligent person, was in a decent school doing well. That’s more than some people get for a start. She actively sought out ISIS, she calculatedly used a relatives passport to travel, and planned the sort of man she wanted to marry. And by her own admission, she thinks beheadings are ‘ok’, she defended the Manchester bombing and said that she wanted her son to be an ISIS fighter. She has not rescinded her views. She supports rape, torture and murder.

But hey, let’s get all emotional and wail that the U.K. has blood on its hands and ‘we should have brought her home’ because that’s a convenient, simplistic soundbite requiring very little intellect.

There's a lot of talk on this thread as if the women are running this shit-show.

That's rubbish. Nobody thinks that ISIS women are running the whole show or are more guilty than the men. They are however participants and are guilty of more than just "breeding for the soldiers" as you put it.

I'm confused why there are lots of people saying she should be brought back to the UK to face justice?

Absolutely. Trying to turn IS women into victims is ludicrous, they share culpability with the men. Terrorism isn’t a feminist issue.

Sorry, posted before I could finish!

Most people are tried and imprisoned in the countries where their crimes took place. Her crimes were against the people of Syria, so surely she should stay there to face their justice system?

Dungeon- exactly. And it’s pretty ridiculous that people are coming on here to point out that ISIS women aren’t running the whole show- well, duh! No one said they were.

Fact is, Begum has thrust herself into the spotlight, and this thread was started to discuss her situation. Which is why people are discussing it.

Anyone who comes on here accusing the rest of us of not ‘blaming’ the men ... frankly, if they feel strongly they want to discuss the role of male ISIS members then I would have thought they would have started their own threads on it years ago. I suspect the reality though is that they haven’t given it much thought until this thread popped up.

She went to Syria willingly having actively sought out these people. She then willingly sought out an isis fighter husband stating her preference to be under 25 and English speaking. He didn’t groom her and had no contact with her until she reached Syria and went looking for an isis husband. She admires her husband and openly states she would never have found a husband like him if she hadn’t gone to Syria.. she willingly slept with a man who had probably spent his day killing and raping innocents.
Yes she was only 15 at the time she went, a few months off sitting her GCSEs but she wasn’t groomed. No one approached her, she was the one who went looking for these people and she was the one who found away to get to turkey and then over the boarder to Syria. At the time she left the government was willing for her to come back and stated no action would be taken against her. She still choose to continue on her chosen part to isis.
She lost 2 children and yet she still supported isis and made no attempt to leave. Then isis falls and is in it dying days and suddenly she want to come home. Well she has no home to come back to as she choose to leave and join the caliphate. By joining the caliphate you are openly stating that you have no allegiance to anyone bar that caliphate so in effect she willingly game up her citzenship of the uk in favour of the caliphate.
Now that the caliphate has fallen it should be up to the Syrian government what they do with all these isis brides.
The international community should give assistance in setting up war tribunals and if needed help with the setting up and policing of prisons to hold the convicted but I don’t think any country should be taking these women or indeed the men who went to fight back. Justice should be served in Syria. It might take awhile before a justice system can be set up but it can and should be done.

The loss of any child is a crime against humanity but that child along with the two before died because of choices she made. Thousands more children have also died because of an ideology she supports and she has shown nil sympathy or empathy for them and so although I am sorry for a wasted life I have no sympathy for SB.

It is really sad but made me wonder how many other babies are dying in the refugee camp every day. I have zero sympathy for the Mum after reading she said that she wouldn’t allow relatives in the uk to look after the baby in safety

Good post dontsweatthelittlestuff.

And of course there is a very real danger of resurgence. The ideology doesn’t just disappear with the fall of the caliphate... the ongoing threat is very real. And we are talking about a woman who has publicly declared that she still supports murder in the name of ISIS.

It is incredibly sad that people are ignoring that the story is about a little baby dieing and are instead focusing on the political angle. It's a sad story

Agree don't.

jessfarringdon

I don't think anyone is ignoring the fact that a baby died. That is a tragedy.

I think people are also pointing out that many babies have died, not just this one, and they are all tragedies.

I think we are all very sad that a baby died. But SB made it a political issue by expecting politicians to intervene.

The main spokesperson seems to be her Dad, who lives in Bangladesh

That's interesting - when this news first broke they seemed to be using the ghastly Abase Hussen. I wonder if they've shoved him aside, realising his support didn't make them look good?

Every death of a baby is a tragedy. We can agree on that JessFarringdon.

Totally disagree on the rest of your post. What’s sad is people responding in a completely simplistic, sheep-like way, as if the only issue here is the death of one child, and emoting that “we” should have done something, rather than acknowledging the wider issues.

Jess and how many tears were shed for the thousands of children who have died in the camps before SB arrived or the ones who have died in the days since SB’s child died?
How much head space have you given these thousands of women and children before SB hit the news?
Why is this worse than what has happened to hundred of thousands of families who were dragged into this conflict though no choice or action of their own and yet someone who actively joined the very people that have caused this blight on humanity is worthy of your sympathy?

Wrong accio
Despite your vehement proclamations.

Pp said about the women being equal

where have I written anything about women being equal?

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