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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

961 replies

UnexpectedButExpected · 08/03/2019 19:34

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

Sad
OP posts:
SchadenfreudePersonified · 11/03/2019 15:02

one 5yo (in a refugee camp) was asked, by a journalist, what he wished for, he said "i want to go to heaven and see my mummy and daddy again"

jasjas - that is heartbreaking.

fuzzyduck1 · 11/03/2019 15:33

Why isn’t the Holland stepping up as the child’s dad was from their?
If there was a baby?
Strange that there are at least 3 girls claiming the same thing one wanting to get back to USA and another to Canada.

All a load of proper gander if you ask me.

Angelicinnocent · 11/03/2019 15:40

I've just been sent a petition saying that if we hadn't taken her citizenship, the baby wouldn't have died and we should bring her home along with the Iqbal sisters because they have children there.

The first bit makes no sense, the baby would still have died in the camp and I definitely don't want the Iqbal sisters back here.

PeggySuehadababy · 11/03/2019 16:00

I think the main issue now is that many ex-ISIS fighters are stating they had no active role in the caliphate (possibly to avoid charges?) or that they were misled or forced to join.

But the power of ISIS was mainly to convince those who were emarginated, unheard, or bullied an abused in their western country that there was a place, Syria, where they could make a difference and become someone, in the name of Islam (or the idea they had of Islam). They strongly encouraged women to have an active role in recruiting new people and promoting ISIS on social media, and some of them were snipers and fighters.

Who was behind ISIS convinced these young kids that no matter what religion they were, what country they were from, they could fight for a higher cause.

I think to some extent the young kids who joined it were sort of "groomed" (both boys and girls), and a society we have the duty to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Smotheroffive · 11/03/2019 16:01

I didn't say you did accio Confused

acciocat · 11/03/2019 16:08

Ah- I rather assumed that as you were addressing me, your post might have something to do with me. Clearly not!!

MissEliza · 11/03/2019 17:03

I think it's heartbreaking to think of all the children suffering because of this war. Thousands, possibly millions, are growing up in fear and in extreme poverty. They may have been orphaned. They may have witnessed terrible things. They're almost certainly not receiving an education or being given the chance to play and grow. When is the international community going to do something?

mothertruck3r · 11/03/2019 17:15

So, her husband joined ISIS at 15. Do the people who think SB was groomed rather than radicalised think that he was groomed too?

Bedsidedrawer · 11/03/2019 17:42

What the fuck?! You are a gaggle of bigoted horrors.
15?!
She left at 15 so brainwashing probably started younger.
Now she is 19 and none of you can stretch your tiny Daily Mail reading brain cells to imagine that she says she still supports IS because she fears for her life.
Look at your 14 year old daughters. Would you throw them under the bus in the same situation? Say oh well you chose this life so I'm out.
It's because she's dark skinned, Muslim. The prejudice reeks out like bacteria oozing from a dirty wet dishcloth.
If it was one of your precious white middle class daughters you would be outraged and you know it.
Three rapes, pregnancies and infant mortalities. Have some fucking compassion

Alsohuman · 11/03/2019 17:47

The prejudice is all in your mind. Try looking at the cold hard facts without the filter of hysteria.

10IAR · 11/03/2019 17:48

It's really not in Bedside's mind, in the slightest. It's ripping out of this thread, because let's face it, if she was a white girl this conversation wouldn't even be happening. That's the reality that people can't or won't admit.

Alsohuman · 11/03/2019 17:51

If she was a white girl she’d be seen exactly the same. Terrorism is just as abhorrent whoever commits it.

Bluestitch · 11/03/2019 17:54

If she was a white girl what? People wouldn't mind her politics? Don't be so ridiculous.

Smotheroffive · 11/03/2019 17:55

Accio I talked of the pp who said they didnt think women were equal.

If women are not equal which i don't think they are in the slightest bit equal in this scenario, why are they being treated as such?

Someone who is forced to tie up other hostages by the hostage takers at gun point?

Armed gang break into a bank, terrify and terrorised the staff, single one out to use to tie up and beat the others (at gun point).

There are vast numbers of victims in this scenario.

There are vast numbers who abuse at the direct beheat of abusers (indoctrinated,brain-washed and abused themselves) all those who cut young girls in the honour-based communities, where there are forced marriages, where women are routinely shamed and disfigured. It's all man centred abusive patriarchy.

Using people is using people, and getting them to do your dirty work.

These things are not black and white, where you can easily separate out victims and perpetrators. Some of the boys are just going children taught to kill, expect and raised to. They have choice? Do you think? The girls raised to be routinely raped, would far rather have the focus taken off them and into another, become immune to it, have to, in order to survive. How else does one survive such horrors of life?

Victims are very much drawn into the horrors of what they themselves are also subjected to.

There seems to be a belief of some black and white, who's entirely responsible and who's entirely not, type thinking, when there's a lot of abuse at all levels.

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/03/2019 17:57

Sorry but I felt exactly the same about the 2 white British girls who were sentenced abroad for taking drugs into the country. Had no sympathy for them either and could see no reason why they should be allowed back here to serve their time.

Smotheroffive · 11/03/2019 17:59

What led to this?

This didn't happen in a bubble, she was exposed and groomed.

Just the same as any young teen is drawn into online exploitation, by paeds.

How is it different? Do you think she chose to have 3 dead babies?

How can anyone see all that and not be seriously affected by it, numbed to all the brutalisation, but oh so painfully aware of a very thin line of the regiregime.

10IAR · 11/03/2019 17:59

Bullshit.

Jack Letts is white, and hasn't had his citizenship revoked, hasn't had anything like the same level of outcry as Begum, and has the same views and the same kind of evidence against him.

So why is the white male getting off easier than the brown woman? Hmm?

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/03/2019 18:01

Smotheroffive
Was SB raised into this then?

What do you think should happen to her?

And where do you draw the line? At what point do people move from victim to perpetrator in your opinion?

Alsohuman · 11/03/2019 18:01

He’s not, I have zero sympathy with him either. Difference is he’s not all over the media.

Bedsidedrawer · 11/03/2019 18:03

I'll ask again - if it was YOUR 15 year old daughter, how would you react?

Smotheroffive · 11/03/2019 18:04

I am saying its very complex and that victims come in all guises. Not the simple black and white that some would say

NunoGoncalves · 11/03/2019 18:04

So why is the white male getting off easier than the brown woman? Hmm

Presumably the tabloid media chose to focus more on this girl (yes, probably because she's young, non-white and female), but I think it's a little unfair to accuse the general public of the same level of discrimination just because they are talking about a widely publicised and not a barely publicised case.

I imagine if Joe Letts HAD been the one reported on so extensively and had his citizenship revoked, most people would have given the same response.

10IAR · 11/03/2019 18:04

Difference is he’s not all over the media

Ask yourself why not.

It's because he's different whether you care to admit it or not. You've all bought into the narrow minded narrative of the MSM without questioning anything beyond what you're told.

He was in the media, just nowhere near as much as Begum.

Because a little white boy doesn't get people going the way a woman in a burka does.

10IAR · 11/03/2019 18:05

NunoGoncalves he was in the media, that's my point. People see what they want to see.

Weetabixandshreddies · 11/03/2019 18:05

With absolute shock and horror that what had I done so wrong for her to end up like that. I'd also have moved Heaven and earth to go and retrieve her when she first ran away and where there was still a chance.

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