Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

[UnexpectedButExpected]

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

It’s horrific. And yet there are still a few people bleating that the ‘U.K. has blood on its hands’ and wailing ‘we should have saved the baby’. Total naivety at best. Dumb ignorance at worst. It’s pretty evident from this thread that for some of these people, Begum’s presence in the news is the first time they’ve ever taken any interest in what’s gone on for years in Syria. There’s a total ignorance of basic facts.

Begum’s presence in the news is the first time they’ve ever taken any interest in what’s gone on for years in Syria.

Exactly so. Also I’m amazed at the naivety of posters who thought Begum and her baby could be removed from the camp by embassy staff - as if the camp was like Glastonbury without the music and surrounded by life going on as normal.

The stupid comments by Diane Abbott that the UK has "a stain on its conscience" don't help. Even she can't be so stupid as to think this has anything to do with shamima Begum losing her British citizenship so she must just be doing it to try and score political points. I think even less of her than I did before.

I will reserve my sympathy for the 73 man suffering from pancreatic cancer in Liverpool who was sleeping in a shop doorway and homeless before the likes of SB. The death of her baby is cruel and I have nothing but horror over his death. I do feel that his parents are and were responsible however. They had a choice that baby did not.

Do people really believe that a 15 year old is too young to realise that murdering people is wrong ?

She was apparently a very bright student who did well at school and managed to leave the UK on her sister's passport, fooling everyone but apparently she was too naive to realise that murdering Yazidi children and raping their mothers is wrong .

Most 15 year olds don't include the support of murder and rape in their rebellious phase.

73 year old

I may have missed it but has anyone who interviewed SB asked why she wants to return to the UK. What her reason is. She refuses to denounce her support of ISIS and its horrors. She is arrogant in her beliefs and not remorseful for the victims. Why does she want to come back

Agree dungeon, some of the political posturing has been vile. But sadly that’s what so much of politics has become these days ... cheap sound bites that are about personal gain rather than integrity.

Just imagine if by some magical means Begum’s third child had been spirited to the U.K. and was alive and well? No doubt there would be people on here smugly patting themselves on the back and spouting about ‘great British values’, while not giving a moments thought to the thousands of other innocent babies and children who’ve been killed. And definitely without any knowledge or understanding of the wider picture of what’s gone on in Syria. But then I guess when you don’t have any interest in the horrors going on in the world until Begum pops up on the national news, it’s a more convenient ‘truth’ to make this about one baby rather than the atrocities carrier out by terrorist organisations every day.

It is incredibly sad that her baby died. It's incredibly sad whenever a baby or child dies. No matter what their parents have done the children are the innocents in all of this.

That being said, SB has already lost 2 children, they died before the controversy of her citizenship started. So whose "fault" are those deaths? The reality is that she chose to live in a warzone and that decision led to her giving birth to 3 children there. She's had 3 pregnancies with no ante natal care, presumably not much care during labour and delivery and no post natal care. What chance did those babies ever really have? And who is responsible for that? She made choices that led to her being there.

For what it's worth I think that the removal of her citizenship should be tested in court. Even if it is re instated though we still should not go into Syria to extricate her. Even if it were logistically possible would the UK be allowed to do it? Is she not in a detention camp? Does that mean that she can't just leave?

"we still should not go into Syria to extricate her."

I still want to know who the "we" is.

Also I’m amazed at the naivety of posters who thought Begum and her baby could be removed from the camp by embassy staff - as if the camp was like Glastonbury without the music and surrounded by life going on as normal.

Ridiculous isn't it, although not even the most daft suggestion on this thread. I think that's reserved for the idea that if journalists are there it must be safe (the death toll of journalists for 2018 alone is shocking), and that maybe a daily mail reporter could just spring a terror suspect and undocumented baby from a camp and give them a ride home.

I still want to know who the "we" is.

Well, I guess the people that want her rescued expect the armed forces to risk their lives to get her out.

Yes it's other people's children, spouses and parents they are volunteering. 'Perfectly simple' apparently.

Now she has had her citizenship revoked she isn’t trying to claim asylum or refugee status is she. This is political with her, not personal. She is at war with the government and the western way of life. She’s active

I still want to know who the "we" is.

It's my husband and son and their colleagues Samcro, people are just not brave enough to say it. It's really easy to volunteer boots on the ground to go in and retrieve terrorists when it's not your loved ones filling those boots.

It's obvious that everyone feels sad for the baby who passed away, he had no fault for his parents actions.

Shamima is a complicated case, as she was likely started on the path to radicalization as a child. A girl from their school with a similar name had gone to Syria a few months earlier, she had lost her mother and had a difficult situation, so I see why she approached religion for comfort. There's no guarantee that if she comes back she will be successfully de-radicalized, or join the Isis or a similar organization were they to make a comeback.

TheFairyCaravan I thank you and your family for keeping us safe from the likes of SB. We have always been a nation of lions led by donkeys though and our brave servicemen and women do not get the respect due to them.

I have no sympathy for Shamima Bergum but I am very saddened a baby has lost its life, as I am for any children born (and died) in a conflict zone.

As a parent you want to protect your child as best you can, her past choices have reduced the probability of her babies surviving significantly; not anyone or anything else.

She is now an adult and will have to deal with her the ramifications of her actions and choices.

National Women's day is about supporting each other to build a better world with opportunities for woman worldwide. She supported a regime that is totally against any empowerment of woman.

I have compassion for many and I felt for her she has lost her child, but she is still a terrorist and a danger and she forfeited her right to freedom when she left the UK and joined ISIS.

TheFairyCaravan I thank you and your family for keeping us safe from the likes of SB. We have always been a nation of lions led by donkeys though and our brave servicemen and women do not get the respect due to them.

Hear hear. And yes, we don't thank service men and women, and their families, enough for all that they do to keep us safe.

A previous PP raised a point which also puzzled me; why is it that she started wanting to come home during her third pregnancy? Of course, the death of any innocent child is tragic, but I could understand it more if she had pleaded to come home after the first sad death, as the hopelessness of the mess she is in began to dawn on her.
From what I could see from the interview with ITV, her views have not changed, with little empathy for the suffering of other innocents, but who knows how able she is able to speak.
As for her citizenship; for better or worse, she was born and raised in the UK, and if it were possible to extricate her, it would be better to have her face UK justice in the UK.

some of the political posturing has been vile. But sadly that’s what so much of politics has become these days ... cheap sound bites that are about personal gain rather than integrity

Ain't that the truth

We cannot forget everything because she lost a child.
I feel sad for her kids that have died but I don't feel any sympathy for her.
People are losing their children every time to people like her husband and she helped in aiding the cause.
If she really REALLY wanted the child to leave the refugee camp as the child was British, she could have sent the child to live with her parents and remained in the camp perhaps?

As for her citizenship; for better or worse, she was born and raised in the UK, and if it were possible to extricate her, it would be better to have her face UK justice in the UK.

She should not be extricated. If she somehow makes it to a British embassy then fine, bring her back and put her on trial, though the danger is that not enough evidence will be found and she will be set free. Or if Syria asks that she be removed and gives her passage to a place where she can be safely transported back to the UK but no British troops should be put in danger to bring her back.

How much she could have done!

She

All these women acting for themselves and holding all the power and leading all the men by the nose, forci g the men to rape etc etc. The poor men who held no power who were made.to do the most appeal bg things and who suffered vilely. How much the men wanted to keep their DC safe and make sure women did not conceive in such tragic and worst of circumstances. These poor men

Fucking he’ll smother- is that the best you can do to try to defend Begum and her vile views? Yes, male terrorists are vile too. Yes, men who murder, torture and rape are vile. So are the women who commit atrocities and support this disgusting regime.

Honestly if the best shot you can have is to try to pretend any of us are defending male ISIS supporters it’s pathetic. We don’t.