Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

[UnexpectedButExpected]

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

It’s a little more complicated than that- the U.K. doesn’t just strip people of citizenship because they do something bad 🤔

“the U.K. doesn’t just strip people of citizenship because they do something bad 🤔”
Well, they seem to have done in this case- and the bad thing appears to have been joining an illegal organisation and expressing some incredibly unpleasant views. What else has she done?

‘and the bad thing appears to have been joining an illegal organisation and expressing some incredibly unpleasant views. What else has she done?’

So supporting rape, torture and murder on a huge scale isn’t enough? Okaaaay....
Quite aside from acting in a way which directly led to the deaths of her own children.....

when my kids were aged 15-19 (and the kids of all my friends, colleagues and acquaintances, from a whole range of backgrounds and ethnicities) a ‘bad thing’ did not mean joining a terrorist organisation.

Well, they seem to have done in this case- and the bad thing appears to have been joining an illegal organisation and expressing some incredibly unpleasant views. What else has she done?

I would suspect that intelligence reports detailed the nature and extent of her activities and were given to the Home Secretary as part of the threat assessment. Those reports would involve other classified information that would if released impact on current anti terrorist operations. So what is in the press is quite likely only a small percentage of the situation.

There are wheels within wheels involved in this case that we will never know about.

May the babies she lost rest in peace. May all the innocents killed and displaced by war find peace and comfort.

“So supporting rape, torture and murder on a huge scale isn’t enough? Okaaaay....
Quite aside from acting in a way which directly led to the deaths of her own children.....”
Is that why she has had her citizenship removed? What has she done wrong legally? If she was brought back to this country, what would she be charged with?

Does anyone know how the UK have resolved the issue that it’s illegal to make a citizen stateless? Because that’s what SB is right now afaik?

As far as I understand (and having worked in British nationality law in the past) she hasn't been made stateless. It is incredibly difficult to be "stateless" and many people who think they are, (because of, for example, never having "claimed" the citizenship to which they are entitled) turn out not to be. They just, for whatever reason, have never realised they are, in fact, citizens of that country.
SB is probably Bangladeshi.

They have not made her stateless. She had dual British/Bangladeshi citizenship. So she is now a Bangladeshi citizen. Her father and family live in Bangladesh so she does have a place to go. She wants to go to the UK rather than needs to go to the UK

HaventGotAllDay

So (just googled!) - she had never applied for dual (Bangladeshi) citizenship. In terms of human rights law, does that not render the revoking of her uk citizenship illegal? I thought she had to have dual citizenship rather than have the possibility of it?

And my understanding is tha Bangladesh is saying it will refuse her citizenship.

Surely seems a citizen of the Islamic State?
So not stateless at all.

“Surely seems a citizen of the Islamic State?”

Is that a thing?

Begum herself admitted that she expects to be charged with terrorism offences should she ever return to the U.K. And as has been pointed out numerous times already on the thread, people aren’t just indiscriminately stripped of citizenship. Each case is investigated individually, and none of us on here know what the security services know (obviously) so it’s pointless to speculate. What we can deal with are the knowns: that she continues to support a terrorist regime (she stated that she did not regret her decision) which rapes, tortures and murders. We do know that her actions led directly to the deaths of her children.

acciocat

That’s not my question. My question is around how the UK are dealing with her not currently being a citizen of anywhere.

pointless to speculate
If speculation isn’t allowed then AIBU is going to be veeeeery quiet...

I am more concerned about the poor victims of IS being stuck in a camp with IS now. I mean they had to run and leave their homes because of IS, many lost whole families, and now this one is getting all the press and is freely walking around. That must be incredibly upseting for them.

It's a known fact many of the brides weren't there just as a "baby machines" but were actually acting as well. Moral police beating women up for not conforming, taking care of slaves (read about Yazidi women, it's heart breaking) and sometimes fighting too. Did she? If she did she will never tell.

I will get flamed for this but I find the timing of her child's death quite well thought out. I don't believe she will ever not be ISIS and imho this is a test of what it takes for them to get back to their countries. ISIS is losing territory so why not move the war elsewhere by returning to their countries?

It is very sad that a baby has died but that is SBs fault for travelling to Syria and having a baby there.

I'm sick of all the political point scoring from certain politicians trying to use the situation to their own advantage. The death has nothing to do with the fact that she was stripped of her British citizensship because even if she was a citizen there is no way they are going to risk lives to extract her and all the other Jihadis from Syria.

I am also sick of the constant assertion by some that she is a victim who has been groomed and whose only wrongdoing is having a different opinion to us. She wasn't a young child who didn't know what she was doing. She was nearly sixteen, and (according to reports) an academic student and quite capable of getting to Syria on her own steam. She actively sought out and joined a group she knew rapes, beheads, and executes innocent people because she thought she would have a nice life there.

Today 09:00 SmileEachDay

acciocat

That’s not my question

I know. I was replying to BertrandRussell

Smile- if she held Bangladeshi citizenship at birth through her parents, then she wouldn't need to apply for it. She just has it.

I don't know in her case, and the Home Office don't look into or comment on the nationality law of other countries but I'd imagine they revoked her British citizenship legally knowing she was also Bangladeshi. If that's the case then it would be illegal in terms of international law, for Bangladesh to revoke that one, because that would render her stateless.

I am also sick of the constant assertion by some that she is a victim who has been groomed

What do you know that I don’t then? Why do you think she wasn’t groomed and radicalised?

HaventGotAllDay interesting isn’t it? I’ve read numerous reports that she definitely does not have dual citizenship, but who knows!! (I know that I would be entitled to dual Irish/British citizenship but I don’t have it because I haven’t applied - regretting this in the light of Brexit 😭)

Do you mean you haven’t applied for an Irish passport smile? Because you do realise that having citizenship and applying for paperwork and passport are two different things?

What do you know that I don’t then? Why do you think she wasn’t groomed and radicalised?

What do you know that I don't? Where is the evidence that she is an innocent victim of grooming? For example, was she befriended by someone who slowly introduced her to ISIS without her knowing what she was getting involved in? All the evidence is that she sought them out of her own accord despite knowing that they were beheading and executing people because she thought she would have a good life as a Jahidi bride. That isn't grooming in my opinion.

We need to understand how and why radicalisation of young people happens.

As a pp said, a lot of people are involved in doing just this. What do you think should be done Bertrand?

acciocat no, I mean I have applied for Irish citizenship.

Thanks for the tip though.

*haven't 🙄