Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

[UnexpectedButExpected]

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

10IAR

I think there are men who had dual citizenship who have had their UK citizenship revoked. But yes, there are men who fought for IS who have no other citizenship so could not have UK citizenship stripped who have returned to the UK. To my knowledge they have been investigated, and dealt with through the legal system as it stands, but I could be wrong in that front.

I also believe, but am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, that they have not sought the publicity that Shamima Begum has? Nor have they expected to have a retrieval team to be sent especially for them, they have either been captured y (or surrendered to) Kurdish or other forces and then turned over to UK authorities or made their own way to the UK/UK consular premises. So not really identical situations, in terms of seeking to be brought back to the UK.

I was really challenging the idea that as Shamima was radicalised but mainly a housewife, that actually her only potential activity for IS was being a housewife and mother, was potentially flawed. Her risk may be greater, we do ‘t Know (and likely never will know) the extent of her activities.

I also believe, but am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, that they have not sought the publicity that Shamima Begum has?

She didn't exactly seek publicity. There is an enlightening interview with the reporter who found her in GQ magazine. It's available to read online. He says he knew that the defeat of Isis one of the girls would likely turn up. He therefore intentionally went to the camp and specifically asked for a western Jihadi Bride to interview. She turned up as he expected.

However she rather naively thought she would use the opportunity to appeal her case. She later said she regretted it.

Feel sorry that the baby died - but to honest the baby never stood a chance in the first place.

If she had returned with the baby to this country, then the baby would hopefully been immediately removed for his own safety and given up for adoption well away from this toxic mother and her toxic family

Leaving aside the issue of whose baby this was, the idea might work in principle. But it surely has something in common with the others about repatriating just the baby and holding returning adults in detention centres ... the predictable screams of outrage from those who insist Shamima's merely some poor victim and that just about anything we do to protect ourselves is driving terrorist recruitment

And yes, jacks, that was a superb post ...

Surely the Syrians are in a better position than the UK to investigate whether she's committed any crimes, and put her on trial if it seems she has?
It would make sense for her to say in Syria until this has been done.

"And as far as I know in those cases they have still been criminally responsible for their actions. Being groomed hasn’t been a defence."

I would assume the circumstances would be taken into account, especially in girls who were underage. Point really being that victims of abuse and grooming don't always do nice things, it doesn't make them any less a victim.

If she goes to trial - in Syria or elsewhere- she'll be able to lead all the mitigating circumstances she likes. Can't imagine it's going to play well anywhere thats been ravaged by ISIS though.

As I said upthread, all terrorists have been radicalised at some point. Everyone who has planted a bomb, mown people down, strapped explosives to themselves and walked into a public place full of innocent children, in the name of an extremist group... none of these terrorists were born with those beliefs. They have all been radicalised somewhere along the way. It doesn’t absolve them of their actions.

Yes accio

Very sensible post Jacks

Well, 2 more ISIS brides have apparently lost citizenship so its going to be an ongoing situation with rough estimates of of at least a dozen british ISIS brides are in refugee camps now that ISIS has effectively been defeated.

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/isis-brides-with-five-sons-lose-uk-citizenship-vrdndb6vq

They walked away from British citizenship, and towards ISIS, embracing anti British activism.

However, they were underage, and more,or even something should/could have been done to put a stop to the tragic car crash that has unfolded. This had to have been going wrong before she left uk

This had to have been going wrong before she left uk

Prevent was considered racist when it was introduced, so what more could the UK Gov do. We could in theory go the full authoritarian route like China?

It's the grey area that the "UK should have done more" crowed gloss over.

Oh dear wrong post. I’ll report and delete. I’m sorry :(

I wonder if all the ISIS sympathisers on this thread would be happy to give these "poor souls" a bedroom in their houses?

ISIS sympathisers !!!???

Jeeez!

How does anyone let 15 yo DC wander off to this?

It's as criminal as planning a murder, it is planning many murders and that isn't racist. It's just murder.

How does anyone let 15 yo DC wander off to this?

Not who you replied to but I will repeat my comment.

Prevent was considered racist when it was introduced, I presume you don't want to go down the full authoritarian route like China's red firewall so what at what point is personal responsibility overlap government overwatch?

There is the point that this was someone's 15 yo DC!!!

Who's 15 yo's leave the country?

ISIS sympathisers

That’s me - down a T

Bloody love ISIS I do

Yep. Me too. Bloody love ISIS.

There is the point that this was someone's 15 yo DC!!!

So you are going to ignore my whole question and just keep shouting she was 15 !!!

You could try and answer how "we" could have prevented this situation.

This thread is the real Mumsnet. Hateful. A forum full of people who can’t let their 25 year old adult children do their own laundry, laying into a 19 year old who was lured away from home at an age when most of you won’t even let your kids walk to school, has lost three babies and is in a right old mess. She’s in needs of help.

Some of you make me sick. International Women’s Day, isn’t it? Nice support for women shown here, you nasty, bigoted, hypocritical gaggle of horrors.

Pretty much yep.

Whatwould you’re right. She needs helped into a war crimes court.

Yep. Me too. Bloody love ISIS.

You have to accept the paradox situation we are in, the old left-wing adage goes, "you can't be tolerant of the intolerant!" is being spun on the IDPOL stack so that ISIS members (ideologically very similar to the Nazis) are being excused and somewhat defended.

It's becoming comical and it's not the daily mail that has driven it.