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AIBU?

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Original poster

Forgetting everything but the fact an innocent baby has died

961 replies

UnexpectedButExpected · 08/03/2019 19:34

AIBU to feel unbelievably sad that Shamima Bergum’s baby has died.

The poor mite simply didn’t have a chance in the world he was born in to.

Sad
OP posts:
acciocat · 09/03/2019 09:56

Oh c’mon m’dear, you’re the one who makes everything personal! Grin

Just answer the question.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2019 09:56

An Irish nurse meets ex-ISIS slaves: 'They put stones inside the cuts and sewed them shut

This is what the IS wives collaborated in

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/an-irish-nurse-meets-ex-isis-slaves-they-put-stones-inside-the-cuts-and-sewed-them-shut-3616532-Oct2017/

This fifteen-year-old’s artwork, which I was the first person privileged to see,
tells of the ISIS captors (on the left) with their batons choosing which young Yazidi girl (on the right) they will hold as “slave” to beat, force to work, tie up, rape and torture.

She has endured three years of daily beatings, rapes and other degrading behaviours.

Daily multiple rapes started on her thirteenth birthday
....
Her beautiful four-year-old daughter sat on her lap.
Her mum told me that she was captured at the tender age of one.

This tiny child was brutally beaten daily by their ISIS captors.
She and her mum were “sold” as slaves many times.
Each and every ruthless “owner” beat this little girl and her mother, raping the mother several times daily
....
Shilan’s birth was difficult and painful.
Her captors simply split her open with a knife long before her mother could deliver her baby naturally.
Two days later they started to beat her mum with sticks, thump her with their fists and kick her with their boots.
No part of her body was spared.

They beat her till her man-made brutal episiotomy ruptured, causing massive bleeding.
She was sold to ISIS slave masters eight times during the three years she was in captivity.
They bargained about the best price for her and her daughter.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/03/2019 10:00

So no, I have no sympathy for Begum,
even though I think she should be allowed back - to face trial - once the authorities over there have decided if they want to try her

limpbizkit · 09/03/2019 10:05

🙄 The middle class naivety of some people on this thread is exactly what people like SB are relying on.

Alsohuman · 09/03/2019 10:05

I’d sooner see her tried there. There are better uses of UK taxpayers’ money than trying and imprisoning her.

KingHenrysCodpiece · 09/03/2019 10:09

The Daily Mail is truly in charge of this country now

They are responsible for sowing dissension.

They are not responsible for politicians reneging on their responsibilities. It's their choice for allowing themselves to coerced. Sajid Javid lacks character. It seems to be an epidemic among our so called representatives these days. Almost every single one. They almost universally allow themselves to be tools to newspaper editors.

They also cannot stop people from thinking discriminantly. People have to choose to do that.

Bluesmartiesarebest · 09/03/2019 10:10

She had a choice to save her baby by allowing him to come back to the UK without her. Her family could have cared for him.

At least she can’t have any more pregnancies while her husband is being kept in a separate camp.

YouBumder · 09/03/2019 10:11

This baby - like so many others - died because it was born in a refuge camp. I don't personally think that withdrawing Shamima's citizenship is the right thing to do - but it made no difference to her child's fate as she had no way of being speedily repatriated anyway.

Agreed.

And also agree with Gronky. The terrorist apologists accuse the U.K. government of political point scoring by doing the exacf same.

It’s very sad the baby died and on a personal level it’s awful for Shamima. But she wasn’t going to be brought back anyway regardless of her citizenshp - the government had already said that she’d have had to have got herself to Turkey or Iraq and presented for consular assistance. Sad as it is I don’t see why lives should have been put at risk to bring her back. I wonder if any of the people shouting that she should have been brought back would have volunteered to go out and get her?

Bluestitch · 09/03/2019 10:11

That is beyond horrific BigChocFrenzy, and important for those comparing Begum to groomed rape victims (who harmed nobody) to read.

nancy75 · 09/03/2019 10:12

As said countless times yesterday she is in an area of the world with no consular access, the options were she make her own way to the closest consular assistance or we send in a team to get her out (risking their lives)
Given the baby was 3 weeks old it is unlikely a rescue mission would have been organised & carried out in that time even if the Govt were prepared to do it.

We also do not know her legal position in her current location - is she free to leave or is there a chance that whoever is running that part of the world wants to put her on trial for crimes committed there?

Bluestitch · 09/03/2019 10:13

I wonder if any of the people shouting that she should have been brought back would have volunteered to go out and get her?

No, they volunteer other people's sons, husbands and fathers. They seem to take quite a cavalier approach to human life when it suits.

Justanotherlurker · 09/03/2019 10:17

The Daily Mail is truly in charge of this country now

They are responsible for sowing dissension.

As long as you hold all media to the same standards then this is just pretending you are above it all in some woke like virtue signall. The Grun/Independant etc etc also help sow division .

They are not responsible for politicians reneging on their responsibilities.

Our responsibilities are following international law, it's a bit imperialist to think we should have got her out of there and not let her face trial in Syria. We offered to bring her baby back, she refused

They also cannot stop people from thinking discriminantly.

Ah there it is, all thoughts that are not on the same wave length must be based on prejudice, the meme of just shouting "it's racist" has to re worded now.

squeezysparklyballs · 09/03/2019 10:17

How have I made this personal?

She, like any other British citizen who joined Isis needs to be arrested for membership of a proscribed group. Investigated and imprisoned. Her son would be subject the normal procedures that a child whose parents were in prison would be.

Bluestitch · 09/03/2019 10:19

Again squeezy whilst you are making these proclamations of exactly what should happen, who should be sent to get her?

BarbarianMum · 09/03/2019 10:19

That's all very lovely squeezy but we're still waiting for you to explain how we should have saved her baby.

nancy75 · 09/03/2019 10:20

squeezysparklyballs how are they going to arrest her when she’s not in the country? Forget about everything else (including the citizenship for a moment) how is she supposed to get out of where she is & back here?

QwertyLou · 09/03/2019 10:22

@Curlyshabtree sorry for your loss, this must be a poignant time of year for you 🌸

So sad Jarrah has died at 3 weeks, they are so tiny at that age. And that 100 babies have now died just at this camp (al-Hawl). Every one is a tragic loss 😢

This theory that she wasn’t pregnant and the baby was “borrowed” is weird. Why would the Red Crescent or Kurdish intelligence lie? Confused

squeezysparklyballs · 09/03/2019 10:24

It's the law, nothing 'lovely' about it.

So we shouldn't bother extraditing criminals now? She's in a refugee camp. She's not behind enemy lines. Nobody needs to risk their lives to get her.

I know where this is going:

Squeezy is just pretending to be a decent human being. She's actually wanting to risk British soldiers lives.

That's not the case at all.

Again with the mental gymnastics to save people's consciences.

squeezysparklyballs · 09/03/2019 10:26

And why exactly should Syria have to support her? I think they have enough to deal with.

Marcipex · 09/03/2019 10:33

The baby died, like many others, because it was born in poor conditions without adequate healthcare.

Not because of a piece of paperwork in a different country.

If Begum had kept her citizenship, it could not make any difference to the outcome. She would still be in the country she chose, in the camp, waiting for trial. There are several British women there, they said six, but probably more now. I assume they are looking after each other, or trying to.

acciocat · 09/03/2019 10:35

How should ‘we’ have saved the baby???

Bluestitch · 09/03/2019 10:36

She's not behind enemy lines. Nobody needs to risk their lives to get her.

You know more than the authorities about how safe Syria is then? You don't think a military team would be a target? There are no mental gymnastics but I am bemused at how casual you appear to be about the safety of others when you are positioning yourself on this thread as somehow caring more.

TightPants · 09/03/2019 10:38

Then Squeezy, as you’ve been asked many times on this thread: who do you suggest goes to get her if she’s ‘not behind enemy lines’ any more, and ‘nobody needs to risk their lives to get her’?

Bluestitch · 09/03/2019 10:40

Also if her location is so safe that nobody would be jeopardised to retrieve her, why the urgency in bringing her back? Surely she can stay in this 'safe' place for now.

SinkGirl · 09/03/2019 10:40

I can’t even read this full thread. I am horrified by the responses to this situation - where was all your outrage when hundreds of adult men who chose to join ISIS returned to the U.K.?

Of course she was groomed, not to mention married off to an adult, lost three children - the lack of humanity on display from the people of Britain is disturbing.

ISIS are highly skilled at radicalising young people, making them feel that everyone but them hates them. We are doing an excellent job of reinforcing that work.

Would you denounce ISIS while pregnant / with a newborn in a refugee camp over there?

She’s been through things we can’t even imagine - you’re expecting her to behave in specific ways, that’s not how trauma works.