Man sues clinic for performing abortion on his girlfriend without his consent

[amusedbush]

metro.co.uk/2019/03/07/boy-19-sues-abortion-clinic-giving-ex-termination-wishes-8855393/

I don't even know what to say to this. I made the mistake of reading some of the comments about it on Facebook too.

Surely this can't stand up in court?

while the mother absolves herself of all responsibilities

All responsiblities eh? how does that work in practice? Like the responsibility of giving birth - can she just not do that but he still gets the baby? Is there a magic bit in the middle we are missing?

She was 16, legally a minor, still in high school
He was 19, legally an adult, unemployed

Nope. He was 17 two years ago, he's 19 now. Doesn't make it any more palatable though, however old he was. It's a shame this girl and her family ever acknowledged she had intercourse with him. She should have denied intercourse as he has no way of proving it was even his embryo (I refuse to call a group of cells at 6 weeks gestation a baby).

I am undecided about this. On one hand, I completely understand and agree with the woman's autonomy over her own body.
But I don't understand the aggressive stance of a lot of pp on here.
It seems that some women want everything their way.
If she wants to abort and her partner doesn't, tough it's her body.
But if she wants to keep the baby and he doesn't, he would be castigated for not supporting the woman's choice.
Some responses do imply the man has no rights and their only purpose is to stand passively by and have no opinions of their own. At least until the woman decides she wants him to step up, and then he has to dance to her tune.
It's a complex case but I don't 'get' the hatred of men who dare to have a difference in opinion on MN.

ThunderStorms "If women want control over their cells, they should think before allowing someone to ejaculate inside them. It works both ways."
Except the cell are still inside her body and so she has control over them.

Thunder and how would your insane idea work? What if the child wants to meet its birth mother when grown up, mother wants nothing to do with said child. How would that affect the child mentally? And all this just to keep the man happy?

If women want control over their cells, they should think before allowing someone to ejaculate inside them. It works both ways.

It really doesn’t. Women keep their cells in their own bodies, they don’t ask other people to hold them and feed them and grow them until their bodies naturally expel them. It’s the woman that has to do all that so it’s the woman who gets to decide if that’s what she wants.

Oh, one thing to say about the mother gestating it like a surrogate and then washing her hands.

It’s not a loaf of bread she’s baking there.

The foetus is literally a parasite on the mothers body.

I absolutely adore my two children, but because of them, I now have osteopenia, permanent back problems and I am now class as disabled.

So not as easy as saying “here you go pal. One baby for you. See ya”

I certain situations where the woman does not want the baby and the man does, I believe we need to be able to have open (non hysterical wink ) conversations about whether, in some circumstances, the man would be able to keep the baby and take sole responsibility, while the mother absolves herself of all responsibilities.

Abortion isn’t just about not wanting a baby though. It’s about not wanting to be pregnant and all the risks that entails. It’s about not wanting to give birth and all the risks that entails, it’s about not wishing to create a human being that will exist in the world that, regardless of who raises it, you are responsible for its presence. Choosing to have a baby and have someone else raise it is not a decision to be made lightly. It has consequences for the person that baby becomes.

I am undecided about this. On one hand, I completely understand and agree with the woman's autonomy over her own body.
But I don't understand the aggressive stance of a lot of pp on here.
It seems that some women want everything their way.
If she wants to abort and her partner doesn't, tough it's her body.
But if she wants to keep the baby and he doesn't, he would be castigated for not supporting the woman's choice.
Some responses do imply the man has no rights and their only purpose is to stand passively by and have no opinions of their own. At least until the woman decides she wants him to step up, and then he has to dance to her tune.
It's a complex case but I don't 'get' the hatred of men who dare to have a difference in opinion on MN.

There is no 'hatred of men' just a pretty unanimous consensus that women have the right to bodily autonomy. That means that women have the right to decide if and when they have children. A man also has that right, but it is limited and ends at the point he ejaculates inside a woman. If that woman becomes pregnant as a result of that it is solely her decision whether she chooses to continue with that pregnancy.

@ThunderStorms
He lost a wanted baby

That is insinuating that he planned on getting her pregnant, which she obviously did not plan. Like you said they may have used contraception that fails, it happens.

Yes everyone is entitled to their own opinions but I'm pretty sure this is some dumb ass kid thinking he can make some money easily. If he could prove he would have offered stability, safety and all the child needs then maybe it could be considered to be a sensible topic of discussion. But I think those men also understand women's rights to choice and what it truly involves being a father.

This young girl, child, did what was best for her and the situation. If he had been a real man he would have discussed it fully with her and accompanied her to the clinic to be fully involved and supportive. You have to have appointments etc to discuss the procedure before it goes ahead, it's never a simple procedure.

Some responses do imply the man has no rights and their only purpose is to stand passively by and have no opinions of their own

Men are allowed an opinion. But until they can fall pregnant and carry a baby, their "rights" HAVE to end at conception. If they are allowed a choice after that point, women lose all rights over what happens to their bodies. They could be forced to be pregnant and give birth, or forced to have an abortion.

There would be no other way to ensure a man retains his "rights". Is that really how you think our society should treat women?

I don’t think a man ever has the right to make a woman keep or abort a baby but then I do think they should be given the right to walk away with no financial responsibility early in the pregnancy - e.g 2 weeks after finding out. This would allow men to have the same-ish rights as woman regarding whether they want a child and allow the woman to make a decision based on that financial input.

This would allow men to have the same-ish rights as woman regarding whether they want a child and allow the woman to make a decision based on that financial input.

Nope. If men don't want children they should abstain from ejaculating inside vaginas. It's very simple.

but then I do think they should be given the right to walk away with no financial responsibility early in the pregnancy

They pretty much have that. It’s pretty easy to avoid paying child support these days.

If Margaret Atwood insists hmm then in must me true

She does, and it is. HTH.

I am a feminist

Not according to any definition I understand.

But then you could say the same thing about the girl. She shouldn’t have let a man ejaculate inside her if she didn’t want a child? I don’t agree with that but it really doesn’t seem fair that men are told they should abstain from sex but women aren’t?

2 I am a feminist

Yeah you keep telling yourself. Thinking that forcing a woman to go through pregnancy and childbirth at a man's say so is A-OK. That's as far from feminist view if ever I heard one.

user1471464432 yes and its her body so she gets to decide what happens to that sperm.

It's no hatred of men cathf. It's biological fact, pregnancy happens to women and women alone.

A man does not get to control another person's body.

Yes, if a woman decides she wants to have the baby, she'd like him to 'step up' and 'dance to her tune' but he doesn't have to. Lots don't (in droves) walking away at any point during pregnancy and the child's life.

When a man wants to have the baby, the pregancy isn't occuring on his body so he has no control. None. He might want her to 'step up' and 'dance to his tune' but she doesn't have to. No matter how upsetting for him.

Nothing can change the fact that every person has bodily autonomy and every pregnancy occurs inside a woman's body.

But then you could say the same thing about the girl. She shouldn’t have let a man ejaculate inside her if she didn’t want a child? I don’t agree with that but it really doesn’t seem fair that men are told they should abstain from sex but women aren’t?

Maybe she should, but the fact is once it happens she still has the right to decide what happens to her own body. A man does not get to decide that for her. And, frankly, men should be able to understand this, the idea that sex can result in pregnancy is not a new concept. They need to take that on board and think about it before conception happens.

She shouldn’t have let a man ejaculate inside her if she didn’t want a child?

Except she then has options of taking the MAP or a termination. These are all options available to women (depending on where they live) who are at risk of conceiving or have conceived.

Men don’t have these options so they have to make different decisions about where they leave their cells.

Words have meanings.

Feminism involves, among other things, supporting women's rights. If you actively seek to throw away women's rights, you aren't a feminist.

It would be like calling yourself a Christian, while not believing in god and making comments about "Sky fairies."

Or calling yourself a Marxist while believing in the supremacy of the market place, trickle down economics and private property.

Or calling yourself a pacifist while getting into fist fights every Saturday night.

You don't just get to call yourself something because you like the sound of the word, or think it puts you in a club you'd like to be thought of as belonging to.

it really doesn’t seem fair that men are told they should abstain from sex but women aren’t?

If women were putting their eggs into other people and then expecting a say over what those people do with those eggs then women would be told “no, you don’t get a say, you gave it to them, it’s theirs now. If you don’t like it, keep your eggs to yourself”

But that’s not what happens when women have sex.

I completely agree that she has every right to do what she wants with her body. I’m raising the point that it doesn’t seem fair that men are told they shouldn’t have sex ever if they don’t want children but woman aren’t told the same.

It only seems unfair because you haven’t thought it through. Think it through. It will start to seem a lot fairer if you bring each argument to its logical conclusion.