AIBU to ask if you changed your opinion about Brexit

[Flyingfish2019]

We had a lot of Brexit threads but I think not about this topic. As somebody who does not live in Britain I wonder if you changed your opinion about Brexit now that you heard that a hard Brexit is most likely. Would you vote different if there was a second vote?

The point is not really whether some magic number of new young voters would vote to overturn this referendum vote today. The point is more what surveys like this tell you about the terrible legacy of inter generational bitterness and loathing this whole exercise is set to create. Young people do not appreciate what is being done in their name.

Op you will find that everyone on both sides will vote exactly the same. Which is why a second ref is utterly futile.
It will be the same result.

I can normally see both sides of a situation but Brexit leaves me utterly baffled. What will be better as a result of Brexit other then this horrible uncertainty hopefully lifting?

If it were genuinely in the best interests of the country it would be sorted by now. I wish we had politicians who could admit what a bloody expensive balls up the whole thing has been.

It's so depressing to think how we could have better spent the money wasted on this shit show.

The point is more what surveys like this tell you about the terrible legacy of inter generational bitterness and loathing this whole exercise is set to create

Let's say that tomorrow TM throws her hands up, declares Brexit a failure and halts it completely. That would cause bitterness and loathing in older demographics for, by definition, an even greater number of people. What specifically makes the sensibilities of younger voters more important than their older peers?

Oh, & here’s a lovely flag just for you.
🇬🇧

Surferjet but you see, that's the point! Love the flag, no issues with the flag! I just don't think leaving will help improve the country in any way... That's all. All studies and -dare I say the word- all experts agree that leaving is not a good idea for the economy. The economy is not an abstract construct either: it's your job, my job, tax revenue for public services etc. The economy tanking won't help schools and the nhs. That's what I mean by 'facing the facts.'
If brexit was a good idea we'd know it by now and there would be a plan! Losing or winning- who cares about that!

If this referendum had been legally binding and conducted with all the usual safeguards and controls (including criminal sanction for breaking the rules), I would say that we shouldn't have a second referendum. But it wasn't.
Unlike a general election, it was advisory. Unlike the referendum that kept us in, it was advisory.
Elevating it to mythical status as the pinnacle of democratic expression is like elevating a Strictly or an XFactor vote to such status.

What makes the sensibilities of the young more important than the old? I think you mean the middle aged - specifically the southern England conservative voting middle aged. www.dannydorling.org/?p=7164

It’s about votes - as you rightly say. Conservative votes.

What specifically makes the sensibilities of younger voters more important than their older peers?

It's important to respect everyone's opinion and the achievements of past generations but with all due respect, a country must look to the future and build for the future ie. the next generation. Failing to do that is dereliction of duty. I'd say that's why such a clear divide is very significant in this debate.

Young people do not appreciate what is being done in their name.

Yes they do.

And you can't eat a flag.

I think you mean the middle aged

Yes, the middle aged demographic (roughly 45-65) is older than the demographic aged 18-24. Hence why I said:

younger voters more important than their older peers

So, again, why do you believe being younger gives their concerns a higher priority?

a country must look to the future and build for the future ie. the next generation

You're assuming bad faith on the part of older voters in terms of what builds a better future as well as a higher level of prescience among the youth voters.

Op you will find that everyone on both sides will vote exactly the same. Which is why a second ref is utterly futile.

thats not true. i know plenty of people whove changed their minds.

Nope. You will find most leaves feel even more passionately than before given the disgraceful conduct of Tusk, Juncker and others.
The last few years and have reinforced the feeling it is better to leave, not the other way around.

Springwalk what disgraceful conduct? Lots of accusations of bad behaviour and bullying by the EU on this thread but I asked earlier and nobody seemed able (or willing) to give me an example. As far as I can see all they gave done is, quite rightly, seek to protect the interests of the remaining members.

But it’s not all experts, many MP’s ( & other people who know what they’re talking about ) say leaving will be great!
If every single politician & economist ( apart from Nigel Farage ) came out & said, ‘leaving will be catastrophic’ then I’d take on board what you’re saying - but that’s not the case. This country has had 1000’s of euro skeptic MP’s over the past few years, way before referendums were even mentioned.
We’ve always had one foot in the exit, surely you know that if you know anything at all?

The Department for Exiting the EU Analysis of the Options.

Doesn't look too good does it, even by the Governments own analysis?

Nope. You will find most leaves feel even more passionately than before given the disgraceful conduct of Tusk, Juncker and others.
The last few years and have reinforced the feeling it is better to leave, not the other way around

so the people who voted leave i know, the people who voted leave on this thread and the people in surveys who wouldnow vote leave are all lying. [

you think that people see companiesleaving, industries being destroyed, the nhs facing severe shortages, and rising racism, they saw the govts impact assesments, they saw the chris graying debacle and they thought - ooh yeah brexit is going to be brilliant.

nope.

surferjet Do you mean disaster capitalists like Rees mogg? Who stands to make a huge amount of money and has also moved his businesses outside of the UK? I don't he's thinking about the likes of us when he says Brexit will be great...(assuming you're not a multi millionaire who can easily move their assets, apologies if I'm wrong)

Littlespaces, that table is a combination of misleading data cobbled on to outright fabrications and was utterly debunked 8 months ago:
fullfact.org/europe/viral-image-brexit-costs-wrong/

JRM is not the only MP who wants to leave the EU.
Jesus Christ I swear the only MP’s you lot know are JRM & BJ.

@surferjet surely its embarrassing that the ‘expert’ pro-brexit people like Jacob Rees-Moggs has moved his business to Dublin to avoid the devastating effect of brexit in England? Or that Sir Jim Ratcliffe has moved to Monaco? Is it not a huge warning sign that even the pro-brexiters are leaving

Let's say that tomorrow TM throws her hands up, declares Brexit a failure and halts it completely. That would cause bitterness and loathing in older demographics for, by definition, an even greater number of people.
It would not necessarily cause 'bitterness and loathing'. Many of us in that older demographic are able to think critically and would welcome a vote on the terms of leaving the EU now that more is known; many will have voted remain in the first place, many will have changed their minds (in either direction) and many won't really care either way. Some might even admire TM for her honesty in that imaginary scenario. There will inevitably be some who will feel 'bitterness and loathing' and no doubt Tim Martin, Nigel Farage and Arron Banks will do their level best to stir up outrage, but given that no-one in government has the balls to admit this is a mess that will cost us dearly, then really it should go back to the people. I don't know why leavers are so against this idea, given their confidence that they are in the right.
Also, why is one voters 'bitterness and loathing' worth more than someone else's? I feel 'bitterness and loathing' about the lies that were told, about the anti-immigrant rhetoric, about the fact that an advisory referendum has been abused, about the removal of FOM, and about the thought that my financial future now looks very uncertain. Why should I care about other people feeling 'bittnerness and loathing'? Seriously?

Personally I don't know any, my local MP lives down the road but he's a jerk so I try to avoid him where possible. I do know there are only 650 MPs at any given time so your statement that's thousands over the past few years have supported brexit suggests to me you're not too hot on your MP knowledge yourself.

surferjet
I'm well aware of the strong eurosceptic undercurrent from the last 40 odd years, but you're talking about politicians and they have their agenda (I think the same of remain politicians). That's what politics is about: an agenda. The experts i was referring to earlier are the people in the real world, in industry, who have been warning us for a while now.
It's very true we've had a foot in and a foot out- the very best deal in all of Europe- and why we'd want to destroy that balance is beyond me. I can't see the rewards.

xMSx - you forgot Brexit cheerleader and economist, Patrick Minford, who said leaving the EU would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'.