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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to ask if you changed your opinion about Brexit

484 replies

Flyingfish2019 · 06/03/2019 22:26

We had a lot of Brexit threads but I think not about this topic. As somebody who does not live in Britain I wonder if you changed your opinion about Brexit now that you heard that a hard Brexit is most likely. Would you vote different if there was a second vote?

OP posts:
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7
TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 21:12

So how to we get from where we are to where we want to be?

I cannot see how Brexit will help anything except JRMs bank balance

bellinisurge · 08/03/2019 21:13

"The EU is evolving into a mega-state, and rather similar to the Soviet Union,"
I lived and worked in the Soviet Union. Utter bollocks. Not even remotely like it.

TonightJosephine · 08/03/2019 21:15

BoneyBackJefferson

I think it was reasonable to assume that the government wouldn't go ahead without a solid plan. Given that they didn't and the whole thing is a mess, do you still support leaving as much as you did before?

You say it's a fuck up, not because of how people voted but because the powers that be couldn't get their act together. I think the problem is that it was always going to be impossible to deliver what the leave campaigners promised.

I heard a good analogy the other day. We had (technically still have) a racehorse and we decided to vote on whether to keep the racehorse or get a unicorn instead. We narrowly voted for the unicorn, but it turns out unicorns don't exist and the best Theresa May can do is produce a donkey with a carrot strapped to its forehead. This pleases neither the people who voted for the unicorn nor the people who were happy with the racehorse.

It's not so much that the powers that be have cocked things up by failing to deliver what was promised. They have cocked things up by refusing to admit that what was promised is undeliverable.

If the leave campaigners had told the truth about what our options would be post Brexit, I really don't think people woukd have voted for that.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 21:17

TalkinPaece
So how to we get from where we are to where we want to be?

AIBU to ask if you changed your opinion about Brexit
HateIsNotGood · 08/03/2019 21:23

bellin - it's not bollocks to use another super state as an example of why belonging to a super-state is not a good thing. Like apples and oranges the USA and China have few similarities, as the ex-SU (CCCP) and current EU have little in common either.

Except it was really super shit in ye olde CCCP because they spent too many rubles on 'militarily' competing with Ya Good Ol US of A.

Of course, we could say that the EU has no 'militarist' direction, except we can't say that.

China - well - having been involved on a 'business' level with them the past few years all I can describe is - whilst the Directors are in the Boardroom their fingers are crossed behind their backs.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 21:25

TonightJosephine

FFS
Unicorns, racehorses.

Jesus H Christ, Just say that not everyone is going to be happy, see how simple that was.

Any Brexit was/is going to be a compromise on what people want.

It's not so much that the powers that be have cocked things up by failing to deliver what was promised. They have cocked things up by refusing to admit that what was promised is undeliverable

Leaving the EU is very deliverable. The problem is that no one has the balls to say that 'this isn't what we want and we shouldn't go through with it'.

But you really should be asking yourself why are the powers that be pushing forward with something that has the potential to be so bad for everyone except the chosen few?

It would be very easy to stop all this so why aren't they. (and democracy isn't the answer as we have never really had that)

TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 21:34

Boneyback
Leaving the EU has always been deliverable.
No deal and its done
Bit is it desirable
Once the compromises and equivalences kicked it, it all fell apart
because the best deal for British workers was always remain
despite what the idealogues said

so
how do we get from where we are to where we need to be?

Frankiestein402 · 08/03/2019 21:35

We don't belong to a superstate, we pay 0.7% of our gdp for access to a trading bloc encompassing 1/3rd of global gdp and for a bunch of agencies that enable our interactions.

When we 'leave' we will spend more to achieve the same or worse.

ContinuityError · 08/03/2019 21:45

And my vote is based on what the EU is evolving and attempting to evolve into - a Federalist super-state

EU Treaties use the word "federal" only when referring to the official name of Germany; and the CJEU Full Court has confirmed that the EU is not a State.

TonightJosephine · 08/03/2019 21:53

BoneyBackJefferson

But it's not about not everyone being happy. It's about no one being happy. The remainers won't be happy because they wanted to remain in the EU and the leavers won't be happy because Brexit won't look anything like what was promised. It can't, because what was promised is impossible. Leaving the EU isn't impossible, but leaving the EU in a way that enables us to regain control over our borders and total sovereignty, whilst also being £350m a week richer, getting loads of great trade deals and not having a border in Ireland is impossible. And always has been. It wouldn't have made any difference which muppet was in charge of Brexit - the outcome would always have been the same.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 22:07

TalkinPaece

Bit is it desirable

for some yes, others no.

Once the compromises and equivalences kicked it, it all fell apart

It fell apart when the EU demanded that article 50 be invoked and the government didn't tell them to fuck off.

because the best deal for British workers was always remain
despite what the idealogues said

Putting remain in bold doesn't make it a fact just your and other opinions, many other "experts" believe that we could do well outside of the EU.

how do we get from where we are to where we need to be?

I have answered

"That detective, is the right question"

but it has no answer because there is no we, what do "we" want?
left, right, center?

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 22:12

TonightJosephine

But it's not about not everyone being happy. It's about no one being happy.

that is provably false just going by the replies on this thread some people are clearly happy.
Are they being honest? Are they trolls? are they saying something just to piss you off? who knows its the internet.

Leaving the EU isn't impossible, but leaving the EU in a way that enables us to regain control over our borders and total sovereignty, whilst also being £350m a week richer, getting loads of great trade deals and not having a border in Ireland is impossible. And always has been. It wouldn't have made any difference which muppet was in charge of Brexit - the outcome would always have been the same.

why are you repeating what I have just said? Compromise isn't always the answer.

TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 22:16

Boneyback
It fell apart when the EU demanded that article 50 be invoked
link please

You want Brexit
Are you happy with where its heading?
Which is your ideal version?

Windowsareforcheaters · 08/03/2019 22:18

@HateIsNotGood "Federalist super-state"

This statement makes no sense, it is an oxymoron.

A federal state devolves power. A superstate centralises power.

What do you mean?

China is not federal. There are many other federal countries - you are making no sense at all.

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 22:24

TalkinPaece
link please

When did this become an academic thesis?
the selective memories of remainers. I and others remember various leaders of Europe saying that we should invoke article 50 now as they didn't want to wait. But again you ignore that I blame our government for not saying fuck off.

You want Brexit
Are you happy with where its heading?
Which is your ideal version?

Been there, answered that, in fact it was you that I answered. go look it up if you don't remember.

Timetheworldsaysicantafford · 08/03/2019 22:26

Yes I would change how I voted

HateIsNotGood · 08/03/2019 22:28

Ok - I'm not sure what part you don't understand - as far as oxymorons and superstates, etc are concerned I have acknowledged that. I think Federal does apply to China as well as the term super state - all these terminologies are fluid and not set in stone. China I would say deserves it's own definition.

Indeed the EU attempts to both devolve and centralize power - which as you infer - is a contradiction - is it Federal or a super-state? Or is it Superman? Too vague for me really, rather be within something that has a better idea of what it is.

TonightJosephine · 08/03/2019 22:29

that is provably false just going by the replies on this thread some people are clearly happy. Are they being honest? Are they trolls? are they saying something just to piss you off? who knows its the internet.

I can't read their minds but I think they're a bit premature and should hold up a bit.

If parliament looks over the precipice and decides not to go there, then Brexit may well be delayed if not cancelled. If we end up bottling it and going for soft Brexit, then I'm not sure what those people will be so happy about because the only thing that will change is that we have a slightly weaker economy and we lose control (as opposed to taking it back). And if we leave with no deal then I'm sorry but they're not going to like it. Neither will they like the wrath of remainers.

I can only conclude that those people are only happy because it hasn't happened yet and they imagine that when it does it will be how they wanted. (Spoiler: it won't.)

TalkinPaece · 08/03/2019 22:31

Boneyback
The ONLY person I have ever seen call for a swift A50 in 2016 was Jeremy Corbyn.
I have never seen any evidence anywhere of anybody in the EU asking for A50 to be invoked before a plan was agreed.
If you have seen it, I have missed out
please enlighten me

BoneyBackJefferson · 08/03/2019 22:38

TonightJosephine

No we can't read there minds but it is wrong to say that no-one is happy.

If parliament looks over the precipice and decides not to go there, then Brexit may well be delayed if not cancelled.

Yet they are the ones that are hell bent on driving us over the precipit in to the unknown.

I can only conclude that those people are only happy because it hasn't happened yet and they imagine that when it does it will be how they wanted. (Spoiler: it won't.)

Spoiler you have no idea nor any right to guess at what these people want or are imagining. And this entitlement to say whether people are happy that they should shut up and be told what they should do or expect is exactly what has gotten (its a real word, pedants fuck off) us in to this mess.

HateIsNotGood · 08/03/2019 22:41

Talkin - Boney is correct, the EU were pressing the UK to invoke A50; even though TM was trying to delay whilst privately screaming at the Cabinet:

"so which one of you fuckers has a Plan? Boris, Michael - Plan please - the EU are asking us to get on with it. And by the way, I did try and tell all of you little shits that the NI Border was going to be a real fucking problem".

Maybe TM might not have said it like that, but I'd like to think that she did.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 09/03/2019 08:40

If TM didn’t have a plan and nobody else did then Brexit should have been called off.

Parker231 · 09/03/2019 08:45

Every morning I wake up and think “perhaps it’s been cancelled “. I still hope that everyone will come to their senses.........

BrexiteerThroughAndThrough · 09/03/2019 09:40

Every morning I wake up and think “perhaps it’s been cancelled “. I still hope that everyone will come to their senses.....

And wake up to a country that isnt democratic?

landregistry · 09/03/2019 10:03

A change of mind would not be undemocratic. Nor would MPs acting in the best interests of their constituents.

The referendum took place almost 3 years ago, was advisory only, and has been proved to be illegal.

We live in a representative democracy, not a dictatorship via populist referenda.

But yeah - the “will of the people” must prevail. Even when Brexit has already been hugely damaging, and we know that it will continue to be so.