AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

You develop bacterial meningitis.. the bacteria associated with it are present on most people most of the time.

Quoting you: you don't understand disease.

Disease comes in infectious and non-infectious forms. Communicable and non-communicable forms.
Infectious disease doesn't happen without the infectious agent.
Bacterial meningitis doesn't happen purely out of lack of immunity. How do you reconcile the spread of the bacteria with your proposition that it doesn't cause meningitis? And how do you reconcile the effect of antibiotics in making people better with your anti-germ theory stance?

Since when are immunocompromised children vaccinated? Certainly not with live vaccines.

When did I say they were given vaccines?

The point is the overgrowth of bacteria in meningitis occurs from bacteria that are already present in everyone... you don’t ‘catch’ these bacteria. You already have them. The overgrowth occurs due to serious immunosupresion. And yes the overgrowth is associated with meningitis .... but these ‘germs’ are ordinarily present as part of our beneficial microbiome... so what happens to make them suddenly increase in this way? And what happened first ...the inflammation or the bacteria overgrowth?

I was around my friend’s sister so we were both given antibiotic prophylaxis. We didn’t get ill. We did get red wee but that’s an acceptable side effect.

“Milk contains antibodies for as long as you breastfeed”

Yes I know Cath - I’d already posted a link ta.

And after you stop breastfeeding? No antibodies which leaves them wide open.

Just as well so many of us have vaccinated our kids as being the recognised endorsed best thing for them, so might help them and other immunocompromised people, as we try to do the right thing for everyone.

Just as well so many of us have vaccinated our kids as being the recognised endorsed best thing for them, so might help them and other immunocompromised people, as we try to do the right thing for everyone.
Not when that course of actions poses a risk for my DC

And my choice to breastfeed until they were 5 meant that critical vulnerable window was covered with antibodies from my naturally acquired immunity ... vaccine ‘immunity’ isn’t passed on

“Vaccine ‘immunity’ isn’t passed on” you mean the antibodies we pass on to our babies from, say, the MMR vaccine aren’t passed on like if we’d had the actual illnesses and created antibodies that way?

That’s incorrect Cath...this might be easier to understand...

immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/nursing-mother-who-has-been-immunized-mmr-do-i

The results regarding pertussis suggest otherwise
vaccineriskawareness.com/vaccination-and-natural-immunity/

Chance of injury from vaccine 1 in 1million chance of death from measles (not in a developing nation) 1-3 in 1000 chance of death in a developing nation less than 1 in 100.

Why is 1 in a 1000 safer to you then 1 in a million?

Ah ok, so now we’re moving on to the difference between natural infection and Immunization. Well you are right in that natural CAN in some cases give better immunity, but at what cost?

“The price paid for immunity after natural infection might be pneumonia from chickenpox, intellectual disability from Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib), pneumonia from pneumococcus, birth defects from rubella, liver cancer from hepatitis B virus, or death from measles.

Immunization with vaccines, like natural infections, induces long-lived immunity. But unlike natural infection, immunization does not extract such a high price for immunity”

Actually though, some vaccinations give a better immune response...HPV, tetanus, hib and pneumococcal.

Quite interesting really .
www.chop.edu/centers-programs/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/immune-system-and-health

And my choice to breastfeed until they were 5 meant that critical vulnerable window was covered with antibodies from my naturally acquired immunity ... vaccine ‘immunity’ isn’t passed on
Hmm, wonder how my sister caught measles at 12.

When they bought in the whooping cough vaccine, the death rate in those under a year went down from just over 7000 deaths in 1938 - 1940 of which over 2500 were too young to be vaccinated to less than 100 in a decade. 1000s a year were saved in the USA by vacvination and herd immunity
Maternal immunity obviously worked really well before vaccinations

Cath, if diseases aren't caused by germs why is it important to get antibodies from the mother, or what effect does the immune system have? Surely it's a waste of a system.

Btw, the antibodies that babies receive are mainly through the placenta. This type of immunity wears off soon and while it may last longer in breastfed babies, it's no way near like a vaccine and it doesn't last until 5 , let alone for life.

The importance of the immune system is that it keeps the pesky bugs in check so that they don't cause disease.
Having said that, some pathologies are caused or made worse by over the top or wrong immune responses to... the infectious agents. They still need to be there.

I don’t understand why Cath took any steps to protect her children from the infectious childhood diseases. They’re all inconsequential according to her. And some of what she’s said suggests she thinks it’s better that children do actually contract the diseases.

Perhaps her argument is inconsistent and she promotes any crank view that seems convenient? Surely not.

Yes, how will your children protect your grandchildren?

Perhaps her argument is inconsistent and she promotes any crank view that seems convenient? Surely not

There is certainly a little inconsistency to Cath’s assertions, possibly due to the material she is trying to base her facts on. As soon as one thing she states is disproves, she then moves on to the next....ad infinitum.

Possibly she is reading the wrong material?? 🤔🤔🤔

Do you have info on children being ‘permanently disabled’ by a ‘severe reaction to (a) vaccine

The existence of the vaccine damage legislation would point to there being children who are damaged by vaccines.

www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment

It is rare but it does happen. As I have said before, this argument is far more nuanced than most MNers will accept. It is not black or white, there are shades of grey.

It is not black or white, there are shades of grey.

I think you'll find it that it's anti-vaxxers who try to present the entire issue of vaccines (chemo, etc) as black or white.
They simply say that vaccines are bad and won't vaccinate full stop.
Whereas most of us accept that there is a small risk, worth taking compared to the risk of disease if nobody has the vaccine, for most vaccines available through health systems. And will evaluate if other vaccines are worth in terms of risk-benefit.
Of course, most of us don't have the knowledge or training to evaluate specific vaccines, nor the time to go through all the data. That is why we tend to rely on expert panels. In any case, there's room for improvement for most vaccines, and research to evaluate them and to make them safer and more efficient goes on.

Most “anti Vaxers” don’t vaccinate because they are not 100% sure if vaccinations are safe and that they do the job they are stated to do. I did not vaccinate my child and I spent hundreds of hours reading and researching before making that decision but I would never pretend to be God by claiming that my views or opinions are FACTS. Yet pro vaccination folk tend to use phrases like “I know for a fact vaccinations don’t cause autism “.... no you don’t! The truth is non of us know shit. Even the scientists get things wrong all the time.

Brilliant comment from a lady a few posts in saying something along the lines of “anti vaxers are like a cult. They think they are wrong and we are wrong and won’t have it any other way” 😂😂😂😂😂😂

That would be a bit like you then wouldn’t it!? You’re doing exactly the same thing!!!!

I think you will find that’s a case of two people having a different opinion not one being stubborn and the other being righteous.

I’m not here to be pro or anti vaccinations. I couldn’t care less what you do within your own families but it’s painful to read all the I know for a fact rubbish.

Where have you done your "hundreds of hours of research " Vynalsamso. Can we have some links please

Same place you’ve done yours. Talking to other people, listening and reading. Every single view and opinion we have has come from someone else, we weren’t born with views and opinions.

You’re just trying to be provocative by saying that. My research is mainly via the internet. I’m happy with that as the best info we can currently get as it comes from billions of different sources, many with absolutely no agenda.

The sad reality is that so many people who are so pro vax that they try to shame others have often done absolutely no independent research but are just taking the word of the government bodies that churn out what ever information suits their current agenda.

Then show us some of your links that persuaded you not to vaccinate

I don’t actually think that vaccinations cause autism but I think they can be the final trigger of a host of environmental factors. My personal belief atm is that autism is something to do with gut micro flora. I might change my mind on that though as I’m constantly reading and researching these things as it fascinates me.

I don’t suppose you’de have any interest in that though as it’s not the same as what you think.

I don’t have any links? Why would I save the links. You’re just trying to be clever. Type into google things like “the truth about vaccines” or join anti vax groups and then get yourself down that rabbit hole. Surely you have read some of this stuff in order to form a balanced opinion??

Tell me you don’t just believe everything that people tell you without question?

I know as much about pro vax as I do anti vax. I chose anti vax