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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

999 replies

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 05/03/2019 16:49

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

OP posts:
Lweji · 12/03/2019 11:00

Forgot to add: the importance of "dirt" is that dirt means that the wound wasn't cleaned, so the bacteria wasn't cleaned away either. So, the bacteria is more likely to be present in a wound in sufficiently large numbers if "dirt" is also present.

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 11:05

Gilead ...You need to understand the history of an issue so of course these older articles are relevant

CostanzaG · 12/03/2019 11:10

Peers who remain anonymous and review research proposals and articles submitted by their scientific counterparts ....these so called experts then decide if the articles should be approved or printed

Do you work in academia cathmidson?

brizzlemint · 12/03/2019 11:26

He didn't cause the damage to the children though, the parents did. I had two children when Wakefield was spreading the myths and did my own research and ignored him, we all had that choice. Parenting is all about choices.

Lweji · 12/03/2019 11:45

Peers who remain anonymous and review research proposals and articles submitted by their scientific counterparts ....these so called experts then decide if the articles should be approved or printed..

I'm one of them. :)

Yes, there is criticism of the peer review process, but it still beats having no review by peers at all. By a long way.

Being anonymous allows reviewers to be neutral when reviewing papers by people they know. My experience is that reviewers are not nasty per se, but constructive, and WILL point out faults in reasoning and on procedures and analyses.
It's hard to publish! Some papers go through 2-3 revision steps and I'm not talking top journals.
Most journals are paid to publish, but that's to allow something called Open Access, which means that anyone can read the papers and not need a subscription. It's still hard to publish on those journals.

So, I still prefer to trust research that has gone through the peer review process, at least until a better alternative has been found.

Lweji · 12/03/2019 11:51

Also, we are obligated to report any conflict of interest, and authors can request that competitors are not asked to review their papers.
There's usually 2-3 reviewers, anyway, and an editor who judges how fair the reviewers have been or not.

Then, you have comments after the papers are published as letters or as counterpoint articles. Grin The battles between conflicting ideas can be interesting and somewhat fun to watch (or participate in) but, and key to this, always based on sound scientific grounding.

If you need to publish on free books with no peer review process, then your problem is not with peers.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 12/03/2019 12:36

I thought I might just add this article to the discussion:
Italy bringing in compulsory vaccinations. No vaccinations - no school.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47536981

OP posts:
HIVpos · 12/03/2019 12:59

Interesting article @Hodge - it shows how serious the situation is if they have to resort to banning unvaccinated children from school.

@Lweji - thank you for your personal knowledge and experience into how peer reviewed material works. Personally I would never trust a random article/book/whatever that is free, has no reviews and we do know that anyone can write anything but that doesn't mean that it is true.

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 13:10

it shows how serious the situation is if they have to resort to banning unvaccinated children from school.
Except the draconian 2017 mandate has thankfully been revoked

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/italy-vaccinations-measles-upper-house-antivaxx-five-star-league-a8481546.html

thevaccinereaction.org/2018/12/italys-health-minister-opposes-coercive-vaccine-policies/

www.nytimes.com/2018/09/20/world/europe/italy-vaccines-five-star-movement.html

Gilead · 12/03/2019 13:45

Gilead ...You need to understand the history of an issue so of course these older articles are relevant
I do. I also understand how dangerous out of date research is.

bruffin · 12/03/2019 13:49

It hasnt been revoked. The article is in todays news.
They cant ban over 6s but wiil be fined if they dont provide proof of vacvination.

Littlebelina · 12/03/2019 13:56

brizzlemint he damaged the children he carried clinically unnecessary lumbar punctures on

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 13:57

The law was introduced in 2017... those articles are from 2018. I have no idea what the BBC are on about ..other than the usual pro vax propaganda...even their link is from 2017!

bruffin · 12/03/2019 14:02

The BBC report is what is happening this week, so more up to date than your links.

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 14:06

If you read their article it refers to a law that was mandated in 2017.... it has since been revoked ...they’ve just neglected to include that bit

Littlebelina · 12/03/2019 14:12

It appears the Italian gov might have flipped a few times on this
www.thelocal.it/20190312/no-vaccine-no-school-italy-says-unvaccinated-children-will-be-sent-home

But bbc has the up to date info

brizzlemint · 12/03/2019 14:13

brizzlemint he damaged the children he carried clinically unnecessary lumbar punctures on

Agreed.

Littlebelina · 12/03/2019 14:15

More info here incase you don't want to click through the links
www.thelocal.it/20180906/italy-u-turn-compulsory-vaccine-law

Littlebelina · 12/03/2019 14:27

In fact Cath your last link says pretty much exactly the same thing as the BBC article, that children would be able to attend school if they were vaccinated or providing they get vaccinated by March 2019....

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 14:44

Indeed ..it’s not very clear though is it ..
I have a friend in Italy who says that you can simply say you’ve been vaccinated and that’s ok... and you don’t need any proof ..apparently?

HIVpos · 12/03/2019 14:50

According to the bbc article proof is needed:

“On Monday - the last day for parents to provide documentation proving their children had been properly vaccinated - the Italian health authority released figures claiming a national immunisation rate at or very close to 95% for children born in 2015, depending on which vaccine was being discussed.“

Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 14:53

Well it sounds like the Italian people are equally confused then

Lweji · 12/03/2019 15:00

In Portugal it's mandatory to vaccinate school children against diphteria and tetanus.

11 vaccines are compulsory in France, with a case of two parents receiving suspended jail sentences for not vaccinating.

www.efe.com/efe/english/technology/france-makes-11-child-vaccines-compulsory-no-school/50000267-3480979
www.news.com.au/lifestyle/parenting/babies/french-couple-receive-suspended-jail-sentence-for-refusing-to-vaccinate-their/news-story/3b027d34542e746069a54f650fbec5a5

It's sad that it comes to this, but children get no saying, so someone other than the parents has to defend their interests regarding health, as it is already with education for example.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 12/03/2019 15:33

Australia is another country with a compulsory vaccination scheme.
www.nytimes.com/2017/07/24/world/australia/vaccination-no-jab-play-pay.html

OP posts:
Cathmidston · 12/03/2019 16:03

Great talk IMHO

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