AIBU to remind everyone that the MMR vaccine does NOT cause autism?

[TheHodgeoftheHedge]

Seeing as this worry comes up so many times on MN and in wider life, I feel obliged to post this and remind everyone that MMR has not link to autism whatsoever, as yet another HUGE study has found.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/mmr-vaccine-autism-antivax-measles-study-andrew-wakefield-a8808086.html

Thanks.

read:
...proof against everything...

So we are both happy ..
Perfect! ;)

Whoops, pressed send too soon...another post from you about it.

Ah, so although you think I’m absolutely nuts to take it, and you wouldn’t take it (therefore advocating not taking it) you are now urging me to do so?

Such mixed messages 🤔. And yes I am taking the piss somewhat 😂

Yawn

I wasn’t going to do this... but this is quite a good short discussion on the subject...

Oh dear. That's the nail in the coffin... not.

The first guy... it's not true. HIV is found in people. It's just easier to detect antibodies in rapid tests.

You're just going back to the same old easily dismissed crap.

You are most definitely NOT BU OP.

Andrew Wakefield is an atrocious human being, whose actions have had repercussions not even he could have imagined. Anti vaxxers are putting their own children's & other people's lives at risk every day. All for the sake of a poorly executed & badly peer reviewed study years ago.

Vaccinate your kids people!

So how did the hundreds of thousands of people who died during the American AIDs epidemic in the 80s die? The sniffles? Lack of essential oils? If books are more reliable that scientific studies, try giving And The Band Played On a read. Or Angels in America. Unless you're only interested in things that already align with your worldview, in which case stick to Infowars.

Bad karma.
But, you know, homosexuals stopped practising anal sex. And drug addicts stopped injecting.

Your not Russian by any chance, are you Cait?

www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi4w8-3g_rgAhUDU98KHVgVCccQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fnews%2F414510-hiv-aids-russia-epidemic-denialists%2F&psig=AOvVaw2ZKko5q1tmf1ah6lijC6l_&ust=1552391581953026&cshid=1552305179429

You are most definitely not BU!

I have a severely autistic DD and she was stimming at 8 months old - she had her MMR at 13 months.

I'm sick of all the anti vaxxers on my fb posting this shit. All 3 of my DC are vaccinated and If I had any more DC I would vaccinate them too.

You are always very respectful and concise, you refrain from using appeals to emotion and ad hominems and despite all of the abuse, projection and insecurities that are thrown at you, you persevere.

As another outsider who has read but not participated, you perfectly describe what's going on in this thread but have the names the wrong way around. Cathmidston is the one using ad hom attacks and presenting opinions based on emotion and not fact.

I admire the people remaining patient with her but HIVpos is right - by countering the nonsense she has swallowed and now parrots on the web with your reasoned, thoughtful responses, you're only giving her claims legitimacy. They don't deserve your response. You can't counter with fact and logic because her posts are not based on fact and logic.

Oh Cath, you really couldn’t just leave it could you, despite accusing me of being the one “banging on about it”?

Wow you really surpassed yourself with that last link. It totally lost me right from the start in its inaccuracies and I had to stop watching at circa 35 seconds where some guy was saying “the FDA has never approved a test kit for the purpose of diagnosing HIV infection” ….ummmmm blimey, really? Wonder why the FDA website says differently: www.fda.gov/ForPatients/Illness/HIVAIDS/Prevention/ucm117922.htm

As Lweji says, it's easier- and also a lot cheaper - to check for antibodies and P24 antigen rather than the virus itself – that comes later.

So still – no debate! – just as TedAndLola says.

Boko – it is true that there is a large AIDS denialist faction in Russia, but unfortunately the poor deluded souls can be found everywhere.

The funny part is that not only HIV is found in the bodies of AIDS patients, as their RNA is sequenced and studied in all it's dangerous diversity and capacity for recombination.

This is a really interesting paper showing how the virus sequences kept changing before drug therapy but pretty much stopped after therapy.

elifesciences.org/articles/18889

That’s an interesting article Lweji. We can sometimes see viral “blips” if we happen to have our regular test at the same time as we, say, have a cold, or something similar that makes our immune system spring into action to help us recover. This has the effect of causing viral shedding, which can be a bit scary for us, but we have learnt that the vast majority of this released virus is actually harmless incomplete viral RNA strand sequences. This is, if course, when on treatment.

There will be a lecture on autopsies - lessons learned and legal requirements at the BHIVA conference next month which could be interesting. PLHIV often want to donate their bodies on death for further research and get told they can’t, though we know this research does take place by interested parties.

Me personally - I’m being cremated (after certain organs have been removed that might help any HIV+ folk) this way I will be certain that all the little latent b “die” too 😀

Hopefully the technology to get rid of the bastards in vivo will become widely available during your life time.

If anyone lurking is interested
This book is currently available to download for free on Amazon
www.amazon.co.uk/Vaccines-Biggest-Medical-History-Vaccination-ebook/dp/B079Z48RKC/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?keywords=Vaccines+the+greatest+fraud&tag=mumsnetforum-21&ie=UTF8&qid=1552383439&sr=8-1-fkmr1

Hopefully they'll look at that and laugh. I'd tell my uncle that he developed polio out of the blue, along with all the others who caught it just after the war, but they're dead now.

As for evidence that Polio is contagious, there is a huge amount of proof, so again, it's nonsense saying it's not contagious is a huge insult to all of those still suffering the effects.

No wonder it's free to download on Amazon.

For anyone curious about the book linked to above, it's written by four anti-vaxxer who literally believe vaccines are poison deliberately injected into the bloodstream.

Absolute twaddle.

And a really interesting piece about tetanus x
preventdisease.com/news/13/050713_Why-You-Never-Need-A-Tetanus-Vaccine-Regardless-of-Your-Age-or-Location.shtml?fbclid=IwAR3dSbWtWTbGeAnD_fKvpT8xO1PKnwicbpZxKVPu6MFO4s6Ogpa3j-t2XPY

So, no actual experimental studies or peer reviewed, then?

Peers who remain anonymous and review research proposals and articles submitted by their scientific counterparts ....these so called experts then decide if the articles should be approved or printed..

If researchers in other fields conducted studies and published results using this method, what would happen? eg BMWs competitors could decide through an anonymous process whether or not BMW would be permitted to develop a new car model... serving nothing but to stifle inovation

As quoted by Richard Smith, former editor in chief of the BMJ “peer review is slow, expensive, a profligate of academic time, highly selective, prone to bias, easily abused, poor at detecting gross defects, and almost useless for detecting fraud”

fascinating article Cath. The Arkansas Medical Society vol 23 reference is particularly interesting. I reckon that would be about 1950, so really up to date information.

This type of article is interesting, indeed, but not for the reasons you think.
It includes well known facts to give some credence to the text, but then introduces faulty reasoning and carefully selected and presented, but frankly biased, data.

For example, it says that the bacteria are only dangerous in the presence of dirt (okeish as unclean wounds are mostly to blame), but it still remains that dirt without the bacteria can't cause tetanus.
As with many infectious diseases, measures other than vaccines have also worked to reduce incidence and mortality. But vaccines remain important to be able to bridge the gap between low incidence and virtually zero incidence.

As with many diseases, there is a dose-effect relationship. Adults are likely to have come into contact with the bacteria itself and probably low dosages of the toxin. However, most of us in clean environments haven't and there's a risk that people in more remote regions can't get some wounds properly cleaned.
The risk-benefit analysis on this one says that the risk may be low in terms of likelihood, but the effect is too serious. So, while most people will be OK without the vaccine, if you do contract tetanus, it could easily kill you or leave you seriously damaged.
It's the same reasoning as for seat belts, for example.
Current vaccines are safe to give. And single shots for multiple illnesses do reduce the likelihood of complications from the inoculation itself.
No problems with the number of illnesses as our bodies are used to coping with several different potential pathogens at the same time.