To think that Martina Navratilova should not have to apologise for the transgender comment?

[Nickersnackersnockers]

Rachel McKinnon is a transgender cyclist, who, surprise surprise, is winning races against women.

Ok, maybe Navratilova shouldn't have used the word cheated, but surely nobody can disagree with the fact that Ms McKinnon has a male body, and the size and strength of a man, and having the right to compete against women is just plain wrong?

PinkyU

Can you tell me which contact sport you play please?

The average Joe/Josephine makes little or no distinction between "woman" and "female". (Probably because they cannot conceive of utter ridiculousness along the lines of "some women have penises!!!"). This is why "transwomen are women" needs to be challenged at every opportunity.

Plenty of TW say they are female and also some say they are 'cis'

Woman /girl is not a 'social category' how utterly dismissive regressive and insulting

Plenty of TW say they are female and also some say they are 'cis'

It's true. Paris Lees has just changed their twitter profile to "Adult human female". Paris Lees is not female, Paris Lees is a transwoman. You cannot just say you are something because you want it to be so. Words have meaning.

But a Woman IS an Adult human female.

A Woman isn't a feeling!

I have no idea what other people feel. You can't separate or legislate based on feelings.

India Willoughby claims not to even be trans anymore, just a woman now.

Although tbf IW has acknowledged the unfairness of TW in women's sport and had some nasty responses from TRAs.

BanginChoons did your DD ever display signs of GD as a small child? If not - have you come across the term ROGD before? (Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria.) This is affecting a LOT of teenage girls now and it is not at all typical of how GD used to present in girls in previous generations.

There is a lot of concern that there is a significant element of social contagion here, as there has been in the past with phenomena like self-harming, and that a lot of these girls do not fit that traditional profile of having GD at all.

There are often unexplored issues (like other MH issues or autism, or even just a sense of not fitting in) below the surface, but because the current trend and ideology is to “affirm” everything, these other factors are not being properly explored in the rush to “trans” children. It’s even possible that her rejection of being female is connected with your experience of DA/sexual assault - that is NOT said with a shred of blame or judgment, you have my heartfelt compassion as a fellow survivor for your experiences, but they could have affected her too in ways you’re simply not aware of, ways she isn’t aware of herself.

There is a growing community of female detransitioners in their late teens/20’s. Most of them have taken testoterone, some have had double mastectomies: their bodies are irreversibly changed. But they recognise that they are, after all, women.

I would urge you to look at sites like Transgender Trend and 4th Wave Now, which will offer you a different perspective on this issue from how I suspect you have been informed so far. There are many loving, concerned parents who are fighting for their children’s best interests and happiness there. Your DD is 13. She is so young. There is a lot out there she still needs protecting from, even through I’m sure she’s convinced she knows it all!

What never seems to be mentioned, after lurking on many trans forums and listening to trans women speaking to each other, is that the 'social category', 'feeling of being a woman', is the desire to be fucked, dominated and penetrated. That's what they think we are.
shall we divide sporting categories into fuckers and fuckees? Or do s and subs?

Rachel McKinnon is not alone in picking up titles in women's cycling.

justme

I seem to recall that McKinnon has also claimed to be a "biological female", but I cannot evidence that right now (unlike the quote above). Ten minutes trawling through that tide of Twitter-shit was ten minutes too many.

17th February 2019, the day Martina's first article was in the Sunday Times. I took a screenshot at the time because I was just so WTAF??

Pinky so what word do you use for an adult human female, as you reject the word 'woman' to mean this? Off your just use female? Because you can't know someone's gender identity, for example 'help, help, an adult female just stole my bag!' Is what you'd say as without knowing how she identified, you couldn't use 'woman'? Have I understood that correctly?

She didn't apologise, nor should she have to. This is a link to MN's statement, she has had her words taken out of context. The BC are at fault with their reporting.

www.martinanavratilova.com/

Her actual statement needs spread far and wide and of course men competing in women's sports is cheating.

Thanks @Owl

Yes, that's the quote I remember. McKinnon, who has (had?) a penis and testicles, who went through male puberty and attained adulthood as a man...

... claiming to be biologically, materially indistinguishable from a woman with a vagina, ovaries, uterus, XX or XO chromosomes.

Why is this offensive, delusional crap being entertained?

The other point is that if woman /girl is redefined in that way

It means many women and girls are not women and girls any more

And also it means any charities for women and girls have had their remits changed, without discussion, to exclude lots of cunty people.

That's non trivial.

No one consulted women and girls to see whether they were OK with being defined out of these categories

Feminism is being redefined as being about preventing 'femmephobia' the idea is that sex is irrelevant, people of both sexes can be oppressed because they are feminine.

This is arse about face.

Femininity is gender, in the original sense, the performance of and adherence to rules given to the subordinate sex class to follow.

The root of our oppression is our biology.

I personally think that being a woman is something we are taught (sociologically), hence why there are so many different “visions” of womanhood throughout the world. The concept of being a woman (for me) is personal and societal, not biological.

I would like to address this.

How are people who grow up being socialised as male sharing personal and societal experiences as women?

I have no idea how RM manages to actually do his job or cycle given the amount of time he is Twitter slating all those who do not buy into his nonsense.

Neither blue, I think for the benefit of GPG that it may better is sport is segregated by ability.

Justme, well then I would disagree with the female portion of that statement.

I can understand the longing, but obviously that’s not enough to change a person genetic makeup.

Sport is already segregated by ability.

You have school level, county level, country level, different leagues etc

An example of top ability might be the Olympics, with the best from the counties all over the world.

If you make it mixed sex, how many women will qualify? Clue. Fuck all.

Jacques does SN parenting count as a contact sport? 🤣

'Justme, well then I would disagree with the female portion of that statement.'

Congratulations, you're a terf.

As has already been established sardine, ‘words’ have very little impact on me.

The whole trans debate is 1984 style double speak. If a group of people, including the BBC, say enough times that a transwoman is the same as a woman then it becomes "true". It's quite scary really that we're all just meant to accept this.

The only fair thing to do is to create a third tranwoman category and and a fourth transman category if there is demand.

I hope this happens soon before any women's sport becomes a complete unwatchable farce and a generation of girls stop believing there's any point in trying.