To not let daughter attend?

[Mypoorboobs]

Daughter has an event this evening, she’s been so naughty I told her she was on her last chance or wouldn’t be going.

She then pushed the baby over backwards and laughed so I said that was it and she’s not going.

DP got home and said she can go as she’s been looking forward to it and we’ve already paid for it. I’ve said no, her behaviour is never going to improve if she doesn’t understand her actions have consequences. Who is right?

She’s 4 and not attending wouldnt be letting anyone down. We were planning to get some things that desperately need doing done while she was gone. (She’s a huge handful and can’t do anything with her here)

WWYD?

And if they're spitting at home, no dramatics, they clean it up. No doing xyz until they've cleaned it. Then move on.

Yea I'm with you; don't threaten something if you aren't going to follow it up

Don't show a weakness lol

But people on this thread have continually said that one "punishment" or "direct consequence" doesn't fit all children yet for those 3 situations the same consequence is used for all children? (With the exception of children with additional needs). It isn't really a direct consequence of the action it's just take the child away from the situation, but if that doesn't work, what's the next step?

Nope, just saying what I would do with my child in that scenario. All people are different so there's bot going to be a one size fits all solution to anythung behavioural. Just saying anecdotally what I would do. I did cover what I would do if it didn't work. For continuously hurting others and not giving a shit about inflicting pain or having no-one to play with- seek professional help! I would ask an expert as that would genuinely worry me. A 5 year old should have a degree of empathy you can appeal to.

When removing your child from the situation would they just be moved to a different area and allowed to continue to play, just away from the person they hurt? Or would they be removed and not allowed to carry on playing i.e. isolating them?

Depends on the severity. If really bad and not heeding warnings we would head home. Not isolation, he wouldn't be on his own, he'd be with me, but he wouldn't be trusted to continue playing with other children while the behaviour is on-going. That is a consequence as he would very much want to stay and continue playing.

If he'd deliberately hurt someone and showed no remorse then it would be straight home. It's never happened but it's what I would do.

One thing to always to remind them of is that it is the behaviour that you dislike/ are annoyed at etc, that you still love her, just not the behaviour.

I must have drilled that into my kids because even when they’d done something serious and had a very big telling off, they’d look at me and say ‘I know you still love me, but you don’t love my behaviour’🙄

All people are different so there's bot going to be a one size fits all solution to anythung behavioural.

Completely agree. However,some people on this thread insist that that isn't the case for their chosen method and that other methods that they disagree with are "lazy and ineffective ". That's annoying and unfair really, and I have a feeling that's why Drogo keeps asking questions.

I have no problems with 'WWYD' questions. Happy to answer. They are hypothetical as I have not encountered the problems, but it's prompting me to think what I would do which I am finding interesting. I'm not saying it would work, I'm not saying it would work for everyone. I'm not a parenting guru. Just saying what I would try, in-line with my parenting 'style' in a hypothetical situation. And that it would never involve an arbitrary punishment that bears no relation to the 'crime'. Or shout on purpose. I'm fallible and have shouted on occasion, but i have apologised for doing so as it's scary and ineffective.

Totally fair enough. I actually work with kids (poor kids) so I encounter all sorts of weird and new situations,and various techniques of behaviour management,some I agree with,some I don't...but as long as it works (for the child) it's all good.

School uses techniques I wouldn't at home (time out and reward charts etc) BUT I support it as they have to manage 30 of them simultanteously so it's a little different! DS does respond well to the reward charts but it's not something I want to get into at home. I wouldn't totally discount it if things suddenly got bad though and I was out of options.

YourSarcasmIsDripping

Yes that's exactly why I keep asking. I also work with children and I have seen the effects on parents when they try the "ignore the behaviour" or "love bombing" method. It is not always effective.

Just to be clear Justonemorepancake your methods are all what I would try in the first few instances, but if a behaviour continues and that method isn't working, then different thing have to be tried out. Some kids just don't respond to being removed from the situation, infact some of them quite like it because it means they are getting extra/special attention. That leaves parents stuck between a rock and a hard place because that method isn't working, an explanation isn't working, but they can't ignore a behaviour, that puts other children at risk of being hurt to see if it suddenly makes the child realise they're not getting any attention.

If a child is hurting others because the attention they seek is that of their mother calmly removing them (not making a big performance of it) from a play-date scenario, it would be rare but if that's the result they are seeking then that's quite obvious that the child is craving mother's attention and I'd suggest that 'love-bombing' special 1:1 time would have a good effect.

To add - I don't see a 5 year old craving attention as a bad thing. If you swap the word attention for affection. They are shoved off to school at a very young age in this country, maybe have a new sibling to contend with... it's so hard for them. They need attention/affection. I know I'm guilty of not giving DS enough sometimes. Trying what you can to connect with them when you can in a positive way may yield good results.

I have issues with "love bombing" ,not sure if it's the idea of it,the name or both.

I think because in most instances it's used as a "you don't give your child enough love and attention,so that's why they behave like that. You just need to love them more" and suggested even when the parent states they have lots of 1 to 1 time, special treats,special days together etc.

I do agree that if one thing is genuinely not working (if given a decent chance) then you should try a different approach. Of course. But I would never try unrelated and delayed punishments (nor isolation, shouting, smacking etc etc) or anything not age appropriate for their level of understanding. Some things may appear to be effective in the immediate effect but set up problems for later. Eg reward charts, work well for some (and I get them for school crowd control) but used too much I believe they create a need for extrinsic reward and approval for everything, which just escalates and sets up a pattern of behaviour that's harder to break when older. Just an example. I know they're popular and whatever floats your boat, but I would have to be really desperate to bust that one out.

@YourSarcasmIsDripping yes the name is a bit . But I'm saying if, in drogo's example of a child playing up for attention, them maybe more attention (not as a direct immediate result of the bad behaviour but done separately/generally iyswim) is genuinely required. I don't mean 'more love' but possibly more connection for a bit. Especially in the case of a new sibling. So hard though, especially in a single parent household.

I would not let her go but talk to her and tell her if she is really good for say, three days she can go then. So a chance to be good and get to go. I would be more upset about my dh undermining me.

Op it is tough and l feel for you, personally l would be furious if my 4 /5 yr old repeatedly hurt a sibling and wouldn't tolerate it.
I would warn once, tell them consequences if it happened again, do consequences when they did it again.
Tell them next time there would be a more severe consequence if they did it again and so on.

My DD was strong willed and went through a stage of deliberatel;y doing something she shouldn't (at age 4) and watching to see what l would do, so l gave consequences that were always followed through, she would then do something else, and something else and keep going!! She was very determined to get her way.

I would force myself to stay calm and keep following through with whatever consequence l had said, ( l believe there is no other option) once it went on for 4 days straight of naughtiness and consequence.It was exhausting and culminated in her missing a party and having no toys left at all, and going to bed early.
I repeatedly explained that if she disobeyed there would always be a consequence, she absolutely understood and was testing to see if l would stick to it!
The morning of the 5th day she got up (l dragged myself up with a feeling of dread l can still remember years later) and was her previous well behaved self and has been pretty much ever since..she is almost 13 now ....I believe this is because she and DS know that if l say something l always mean it, and l never give in.

Pick your consequences carefully though, best to really plan before you set something unfair/impossible to stick to.It helped me that DH and l vowed early on that we would NEVER undermine each other, so if one of us said something we never disagreed in front of them which has been tough at times, but it does stop them asking the other parent to get around rules! This is becoming very noticeable now they are almost teens and getting rather too smart....
Unkindness is not to be tolerated, l think the anger on my face would scare mine into submission, if they hurt each other(or another child) deliberately....l have never smacked .

OP, you are not a bad parent, at least not any worse than I was. But there were times when I found my dd "hated" me or at least didn't love me anymore and then no amount of punishment helped. I had to win back her affection first of all.

@drogosnextwife i am certain this will be horrifying, but my mother did this and it worked quite effectively.

When a child (little, not older) bit her, she bit them back. Just enough to hurt. If they hit her she hit them back, only enough to sting, but enough for them to understand how they were hurting her.

She would first say "no" "dont" "stop" etc. But if they wouldn't, she gently, without anger, bit back. She said it never took more than that one time.

She was eldest of 6 children and babysat many cousins as well as our sets of children. I don't think she did it to mine, but i did to my daughter. It wasn't a CHOMP! it was warnings then "this is how it feels "

After that, if she hit me, i would rub my arm and say in hurt voice, "ow! You hurt me." Her: "I sorry." Would be the reply.

My children aren't now, as adults, physically abusive, and as children, aside from that early stage they go through, not hitters or biters.

My son remembers timeouts and said he understood and decided to avoid them by being good.

Dd??? She's still a holy terror! Couldn't give her a time out bc she was dangerous! Couldn't leave her alone! She was always a challenge. I once threatened to spank her favorite teddy bear and she got so upset i couldn't even punish her toy!
Every child is different.

The people who say, "i treated both the same, etc." Are missing the point that everyone is different.

I

Well how lovely for the people whose children never do anything that requires punishment . I expect it’s their brilliant parenting.

DS bit me today and drew blood because he didn’t want a nap (he then slept for 2 hours).

OP I think you did the right thing. It’s hard to think in the heat of the moment whether you’re threatening a thing you’re going to want to follow through but I think follow through is very important. I am also sure that DS (just 3) understands time delay punishments (when we do one he often checks later if he’s triggered it, ‘will I still get to go to the museum tomorrow?’). However in the long process of trial and error we are finding immediate time out more effective (only for violence- I ignore him for 3 minutes, timed on Alexa - he hates it). It also means i don’t have to think through about follow through etc in the heat of the moment which can be helpful and there’s an element of natural consequences (if you’re mean to me then I don’t want to speak to you). I also talk to him after the time out about the behavior and his feelings though so far I have no evidence this makes any difference whatever.

Agree with other posters you need to agree a strategy with your dh and he needs to back you up even if he thinks you’re wrong on a given call. And vice versa.

I do also make an effort to be extra nice to DS when he’s going through a difficult phase. I think it helps a bit- at least it helps reset the negative spiral we can get into when he’s being awful to me and others. Like your dd he’s mostly lovely but the bad bits are hard.

Hang in there you’re doing a good job. Some kids are harder work than others. All you can do is try your best and you’re clearly doing that. Big hugs and good luck x

Aria999

Well how lovely for the people whose children never do anything that requires punishment

You have such a bias in that statement.

Do you punish your OH? An elderly relative? A dog?

Some of us are simply adding children to that list.
It's not to say that our children are exeptional just that we take a different approach.
If punishment works for you then great ( sounds like it isn't working though), but there are other ways.
Using a positive approach to parenting, working on respect, allowing children full and meaningful opportunities to realise what their actions mean, learning about responsibility.
Without punishment, without threats,, instead working on the dynamics of the relationship.

It's not about being liberal, or raising unruly children it's about shifting the focus away from action/punishment/reward.

My DH doesn't bite me. If it works for you, great. You sounded a bit judgy.