To wish there was not a decline in the number of children studying foreign languages

[ForalltheSaints]

According to a BBC survey, a 45% drop over c20 years in the number of language GCSEs taken, with a bigger drop in French, though more taking Spanish.

Apparently because they are perceived as more difficult.

I rejoice in not being the typical Brit or American abroad expecting everyone to speak English. Should we not be more encouraging, perhaps by allowing universities if they wish to insist on one language GCSE alongside English Language and Maths as a condition of entry?

I’ve travelled round the world and managed to gain a good insite into different cultures thanks. Very few people speak the language of every country they visit.

As someone who has an MA in Modern Languages I find this really sad.

Learning another language isn’t just about being able to speak to someone when you go on holiday (because, quite frankly, it’s very rude to expect people to speak English when they’re in their own country...). It’s about understanding different cultures, histories and attitudes: precisely what this country currently needs.... It also helps train your brain to critically analyse language and therefore be better able to manipulate it (whether your own mother tongue or a foreign language). There is so much more to language learning than just vocab and grammar, which is why it’s such a shame numbers are falling.

yanbu
language learning is sooo important!

it can help recovery after a brain injury/stroke.

people whine that it's too difficult should just get over themselves (severe learning difficulties excepted)

I am scottish and have a degree in Spanish.

Barely anyone I know (outwith uni) has a second language.

It’s sad but it’s just the way it is.

I speak Vietnamese Greek Thai Mandarin and a few others, but the others are easy European languages for the most part. I’m learning Polish and Russian at the moment.

I absolutely love languages, but for most of them, I didn’t learn grammar first, I learned vocabulary and I watched TV. I’m visually impaired, so for the most part, I didn’t have books available to teach grammar. I learned Greek not quite two years ago, but I’m fluent in it now. And I learn Vietnamese by going to the market every day and just asking what things were. Little by little, I learned it well. The key is to find something you really like doing, then things get a lot easier. Polyglots spend a lot of time on languages, yes, they might be easier, but that doesn’t mean we don’t spend hours learning them. If you like cooking, but you can’t stand French, try and combine the two. It will get easier, it’s just Hass to be something you like. Being around people who speak the language helps a lot too. There are many ways to learn a language, not just from textbooks.

Languages are very useful, and the open so many doors. It is very true that you become a different person when you speak an additional language.

But how many of those people who did study then actually ended up being able to speak the language ten years on? Tracing a language ineffectively is just as useless as not teaching it at all but it’s worse because it’s a waste of time.

If it isn’t a requirement or needed in the workplace what is the point?

Because few workplaces operate in absolute isolation? Because business is not just about buying and selling, but also includes massive, worldwide projects with worldwide implications in fields such as, oh I don’t know, science and engineering. Because if we want to be outward looking, rather than insular islanders (and we are an island about to separate ourselves in every which way possible from our nearest neighbours) there is way more to the world than just anglicised culture. Because reading literature, listening to music, watching films from other countries (even if you do it in English with subtitles, google translate and and word reference for help), teaches you about how others think, feel, operate on a daily basis. You really can’t see that thousands and thousands of jobs in this country depend on daily interaction with people in other countries? Because, whatever the mumsnet jury thinks, English isn’t spoken by everyone (not even nearly). Because when you want that promotion that involves international travel, school fees paid and other lovely perks, the job doesn’t go to the person who says ‘what’s the point?’, it goes to the person who made even a minimal effort. Because good interpreters/translators stop wars; bad ones start them. Because it’s lovely to be a foreigner in a foreign land and have someone jump out of nowhere and want a quick chat. Because it’s lovely being a foreigner I a foreign land to have someone just steer you gently in the right direction when you’re veering off course. Because I want to live in a world, a country, a city, a neighbourhood, that is opening and welcoming and laughs at the problems language difference can bring, not makes assumptions, spreads rumours and tells'people to ‘fuck off back to where you came from’. Because scientifically, language learning brings benefits such as bigger brains and protection from dementia.

But yeah, you know, what’s the fucking point?

Green elephant, I do have learning difficulties, but I’ve always love languages. As I said though, I don’t use Books for most of the time, so teachers to complain but I haven’t use the textbook in my grammar isn’t good etc. I also have a terrible time with writing some of the languages, like Greek. When I did the test, I passed with a high score when I was given a scribe.

I just really like them, and I learned them doing things that I like. I also have a lot of friends from around the world to practice with.

And I forget who said about the Reggaeton music not being appropriate for school, Ha ha ha. I totally agree. I think you might have to look deep for some music that is suitable. I love music though, so this was also very helpful for me to learn.

Oh, and I think people with a GCSE in a language earn on average something like £5k a year more than those who don’t.

Google translate

Oh dear. Amuse yourself. Try Google Translate Sings on YouTube. And just google ‘google translate errors’. And when you’ve finished giggling at eating horse penis and god only knows what, think about the application of such an imperfect tool in the real world.

Bollocks can it if it isn’t relavent.

And sorry but science and engineering projects happen just fine with staff not speaking a language. Jobs here are conducted in English. Science jobs require ability in science. I doubt very much a company would pass up somebody with a top science degree for one with a lesser degree but an O’level in French.

I loved languages in school and studied French, German and Latin for GCSE. I carried on with French and German for A levels and a degree, and lived in Germany for a while.

I now use French and German all day every day at work, but I don’t get paid extra for it. Even though I love languages, I am going to retrain soon in a different area, to have more of a career.

Pretty sure most publications will be online already translated.

Cross post with N0rdic: whilst you can get so far without speaking another country’s language, you will never truly understand the country until you know its language. A country’s soul is in its language: even the best translatations aren’t enough.

Languages weren't compulsory at GCSE for that long. I started teaching in 1994 and the first compulsory year sat GCSE in 1998. They introduced an opt-out for exceptional circumstances a few years later and scrapped them altogether a couple of years after that.

I personally prefer willing volunteers to conscripts - I would invite anyone who thinks it's a good idea, to teach a group of middle ability year 10s who don't want to be doing it. It was a nightmare, particularly in the deprived area I was teaching in where the chances of most of them ever needing a language are very low. At least the lowest classes could do the Certificate of Achievement which was attainable for most (although relatively pointless!)

We do need to teach languages at primary but schools have no money to pay specialist staff (which is what is needed) and it's often delivered by HLTAs with no language ability whatsoever for about 30 minutes a week and is the first thing to be cut if time is needed for special events.

I was lucky - I was taught French at primary school in the 1970s by a man who was passionate about it (and had taken a sabbatical to be trained). His enthusiasm was so infectious and we had at least a couple of sessions a week. He was an absolute inspiration to me.

That's what we need - passionate, enthusiastic teachers who are not afraid to stretch primary kids beyond numbers/colours. Then we wouldn't need to make it compulsory - we would have young people aspiring to learn languages.

Your response is as expected. Utter lack of ability to think even broadly within the box, let alone outside it. Not all jobs here are conducted in English. And many people only have jobs here because there are people here working hard on their behalf in another language.

Children learn languages up to year 9 when they then choose their options. If you are pretty sure after 3 years you have no ability in languages and don’t wish to persue one of the few jobs that a GCSE language is crucial for really you shouldn’t be forced to waste an option on it.

because, quite frankly, it’s very rude to expect people to speak English when they’re in their own country

Is this a good reason though? If you travel even a medium amount, there's no way you can learn all the necessary languages. I might study nothing but languages and know French, German and Spanish, but what about when I go to Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, China, India, Cambodia, Malaysia, Netherlands, Brazil etc.

Once you have learned one language, it gets easier to learn subsequent languages, particularly if you learn the structure (grammar). So it doesn't really matter which language you learn, what you are actually learning is 'how to learn a language'.

whilst you can get so far without speaking another country’s language, you will never truly understand the country until you know its language. A country’s soul is in its language: even the best translatations aren’t enough.

Isn't that true about any subject though? Can you really understand the our world without studying science or maths? Can you really understand the political landscape without studying law and politics? Can you really understand any country without studying history?

I would argue that you can't, but the reality is there's only so much time in the day and students have different interest, so we can't make every subject compulsory.

N0rdicStar but what if your kids aren't good with sciences and wanted to learn a language instead?

I disagree it should be mandatory, but they should be available as an option.

And the questions about practical uses can apply to anything- I don't use Math beyond figuring out change, for geography I can use Google maps and what practical use is my knowledge about history? Of course it doesn't actually work that way and if I'd chosen to do something like accounting as a career path, perhaps math would suddenly look a lot more relevant.

Once you have learned one language, it gets easier to learn subsequent languages, particularly if you learn the structure (grammar).

Sure, but you won't learn French to a gcse level (especially if it's not really your interest and you were forced in to it), then find you easily pick up Manderin.

I think people with a GCSE in a language earn on average something like £5k a year more than those who don’t.

Correlation does not imply causation. People with a GCSE in languages might also have attended better schools, had more life experiences like going abroad, had private tuition, come from richer families etc etc. All those things influence earning potential too.

Nope, but it'll probably be easier to pick up Spanish or Portuguese as they're in the same family.

However, languages seem to be less and less an option, let alone mandatory.