To wish there was not a decline in the number of children studying foreign languages

[ForalltheSaints]

According to a BBC survey, a 45% drop over c20 years in the number of language GCSEs taken, with a bigger drop in French, though more taking Spanish.

Apparently because they are perceived as more difficult.

I rejoice in not being the typical Brit or American abroad expecting everyone to speak English. Should we not be more encouraging, perhaps by allowing universities if they wish to insist on one language GCSE alongside English Language and Maths as a condition of entry?

[pearldeodorant]

I find it fascinating that supposedly languages aren't valued and yet the bilingual schools in London are bursting at the seams. With nursery fees at £18k (!!) a year, people have to register their babies before birth at some of the international bilingual schools. And it's not just those from France etc, its British families who value the skills being bilingual give you. So some people definitely still value languages...

Immersion is the only way to do it. Get the kids into french/Spanish/whatever schools and they'll pick it up no problem.

It was hard work to become bilingual later on in life

[N0rdicStar]

I use maths daily. I never use my French. I use geog and history fairly frequently. No problems with it being an option but making it mandatory at unis or as an option choice no. Really don’t think passing over a gifted scientist without a language GCSE for a science degree in favour of a lesser student with a language is the way to go. Pretty sure my dc will scrape a language GCSE but not sure that makes them more worthy on science and engineering degree courses.

It smacks of Gove’s insistence on Roman numerals and reciting poetry. There to look good.

[Splodgetastic]

@Hellokittymania, I was the one who mentioned about Reggaeton.

Maybe GCSE level is not necessary, but a certificate of achievement or participation at least would be great. However, I have degree level languages and have worked through the medium of these languages, and I would still not count myself as truly fluent. I would say competent or proficient perhaps (and even C2 on the CEFR), but I would not pass for a native speaker, at least not in all technical aspects of my job.

[Grace212]

I'm obviously a minority with this view but I actually wish I hadn't had to do a language at GCSE.

I don't remember it, have never used it and would have had room for another more useful subject if I hadn't had to waste time on a language. I have no natural aptitude for it and no interest.

I have a couple of friends who have had to learn languages for work reasons and I can see that they have a very different experience. Learning as an adult, with the right motivation (not just to pass an exam), and learning in a way that suits you and using the language so remembering more - seems like a more efficient way to learn.

so actually if people make that decision later in life, it can work very well.

before anyone asks, I don't go abroad, so there's no expectation from me that people in other countries should speak any language apart from their own.

[Splodgetastic]

@N0rdicStar, I also use maths daily, but just basic arithmetic. I had a colleague with A level maths (I only have GCSE) who didn’t understand that =0.90* in Excel is 90%. Perhaps a GCSE language student might be able to pick up on others’ deficiencies in languages. Whether this is necessary depends upon whether the job requires it.

[goldengummybear]

The government pays lip service to NFL teaching. The primary school lessons are a total joke and good secondary school MFL teachers are also hard to recruit.

I am trilingual and 2 of my 3 kids have started a second language to GCSE. My third is dropping German at the end of y8. He's dyslexic and finds English tricky enough.

[WithTwoGiantBoys]

My ds2 is dyslexic so I'll be glad if he doesn't have to try to learn spelling rules for another language and give him another GCSE to fail. On the other hand apparently dyslexics don't have anywhere near as much trouble with Chinese characters, so maybe that would be ok.

[BlitheringIdiots]

DS13 has to choose a language for GCSE. He's got no lingual flair. It's a waste of a GCSE. Doubt he will manage more than a 2 or 3. He could have chosen another subject

[Nat6999]

Languages were compulsory when I was at school, I hated them, was forced to take French as one of my options & failed it, totally wasted 2 years of lessons when If I could have taken something I was interested in, i would probably have had another qualification. DS hasn't had to take a language as a GCSE option & has been able to take subjects that will all be useful to him, that he enjoys & works hard at.

[BareBum]

There is some real contempt for language learning on this thread. Miserable reading for an MFL teacher. Oh well, plan B: lure kids in with the promise of pains au chocolat.

[Whyyounoeatmypie]

As a current Modern Languages academic and lapsed language teacher YADDDNBU.

Most of the world speaks two languages. Only speaking English means we miss out on the brain plasticity multilingualism brings. The idea that lots of people just 'aren't language people' is a myth (also, try telling that to everyone who has to learn Wnglish to evwn have a shot at a good job) - the problem is lack of government incentive which means not being taught it young enough and then, by the time you've had 11 years to absorb the idea that they're hard and unnecessary, being made to start doing a subject from scratch in which you regularly have speak in front of people (we had to sing a lot too)...just as you're hitting the most self-conscious time of your life. Compulsory second language from Y1 would be so good in so many ways.

[wombat1a]

Sadly for 99% of people learning a language at school is a waste of school teaching time. The two languages most worthwhile learning if your first language is English are Mandarin and Spanish. IF you can speak English + one of those two then you can speak to far more people in the world than if you learn German/French etc etc.

The problem is that for most people learning a language is reliant on using it and being an Island nation we don't do that much at all. I am all for not re-introducing compulsory languages unless it is Spanish and Spanish alone.

FWIW I learnt French - never used it at all in the last 40 yrs, Dsis & DBro learnt German - never used again in 40 yrs. Would have been far better learning other things in school.

[WithTwoGiantBoys]

But my DS2 is fine with the talking bits of learning another language (he had Spanish lessons pre-school where he spent an hour doing fun stuff with a lovely Spanish lady who never spoke in English) and has had spanish at school since year 2, but he cannot spell in English, he will never be able to write enough of another language to pass an exam so failing a GCSE in Spanish is a wasted opportunity to gain a GCSE in something he stands a chance of passing.

[MitziK]

*It was Blair's Labour government that stopped language being compulsory at schools in 1999.

So that means we can't blame:

• austerity
• Tories
• Brexit

Language learning has been on the decline for the last 18 years. Lots of language teachers have been made redundant in that time. Universities have also dropped modern languages, including Russell Group unis.

The decision to drop compulsory language learning at schools has already had far-reaching consequences and it will take a lot, lot longer than 18 years to reverse this, if its even possible.*

I'm not so sure on that being solely his fault - I took my GCSEs in 1989 and we certainly didn't have to take a language.

[LaFreaka]

Ds is a passionate linguist - but only since Secondary - he hated languages on Primary, I’m not really sure why...I just assumed it wasn’t his thing.
He’s doing it for A level and it was weird listening to the French teacher try to convince us that it was an economically worthwhile subject (she gave us the same dull speech for GCSE) she said you could become a teacher or study it at uni with business. I just said - he wants to take French because he’s really into it, he absolutely loves it and Ds said yes I’d like to live in France too! - no other teacher was trying to convince us their subjects were worthwhile from a careers perspective - it was a bit desperate, other subject teachers just focused on whether he was capable and exploring whether he would enjoy the course.
I’m not convinced it’ll improve his career options much - I’m just glad he’s doing something he really enjoys for A level.

[MitziK]

Mind you, at our school, languages are compulsory because we have so many kids whose Mother tongue is something else - it's seen as an easy pass for them.

I'm less impressed by the way the classes are taught - the native speakers are expected to teach their peers. Which makes them feel either self conscious (especially when the teacher corrects their pronunciation) - or they play up because it's pointless making them sit through classes on how to ask where the bathroom/town hall is and how to tell the dentist their tooth hurts.

[zwellers]

Complete waste of time. I suffered a pointless four years of french and 7 of german at school which have been absolutely useless and unused since and have been no benefit to me whatsoever. If I could withdraw dc from language lessons I would.

[LaFreaka]

I did my GCSEs in 1988 and was allowed to avoid a languages option which I gladly took advantage of - Mr Blair had no input at that’s time - so he can’t be solely to blame for MFL decline - the Tories must have loosened things up before he did.

[Lovingbenidorm]

I for one will be delighted to see the back of languages in my youngest education.
We’re talking 8’s n 9’s in everything BUT French will be lucky to get a 6

[ArmchairTraveller]

I learnt several languages, as did DH. Entertaining, but we’ve never used them other than as a hobby, same as a lot of other people. MFL has to be seen as practical and useful in life, rather than a holiday novelty if more students are to take it as a serious subject.
Drama, art, dance, music...all more useful and used every day.

[gt84]

My son’s did French at primary school but their secondary school only teaches Spanish. DS2 hasn’t chosen subjects yet but DS1 was fiercely encouraged to choose Spanish as a gcse which he did but it wasn’t compulsory. My colleague has a child the same age and their school makes them take a language gcse (bigger school so choice of two languages)

[Rumboogie]

My DS got A* and A in French and German A levels respectively, but was very anxious throughout by the well-known severe marking of languages at A level, a fact which put off students at his school from taking languages as it was felt (and acknowledged as true by MFL teachers) that it was more difficult to achieve a high grade. This is apparently due to the high number of native speakers taking the exams. This seems ridiculous and unfair. Surely native speakers should be taking a different exam equivalent to our English exams. Eg ‘German for Native Speakers’

[Jsmith99]

I have worked with many German people for many years and in my experience it is completely pointless for a native English speaker to learn German, as any attempt to speak it is invariably met with a response in flawless, fluent English.

The same is true for Dutch and all Scandinavian languages. Perhaps more so, in fact.

[ArmchairTraveller]

Are there studies that work out why foreign languages seem to be so much better taught and successful in other countries? And which other countries have a high take -up of languages other than English?
What are we doing wrong in England that MFL are seen as irrelevant by so many?

[lhw92]

I kind of agree, but imo it’s easier to learn English as a second language
Also, agreed ^Jsmith99

Although what slightly irks me is how only some languages are seen as favourable e.g. french German Spanish

I speak an ‘immigrant’ language which often gets made fun of and has some negative connotations
I know plenty of people who think learning languages is so important / culturally enriching / blablabla but in my experience they don’t care if it’s an ‘immigrant’ language and are only interested if it’s one of the desirable languages