To wish there was not a decline in the number of children studying foreign languages

[ForalltheSaints]

According to a BBC survey, a 45% drop over c20 years in the number of language GCSEs taken, with a bigger drop in French, though more taking Spanish.

Apparently because they are perceived as more difficult.

I rejoice in not being the typical Brit or American abroad expecting everyone to speak English. Should we not be more encouraging, perhaps by allowing universities if they wish to insist on one language GCSE alongside English Language and Maths as a condition of entry?

And one reason Spanish is taught more than French now because it is more useful. More people in the world now speak Spanish than French

Technically true there are more Spanish speakers in the world. It is taught more now, however, because our general narrow-mindedness when it comes to language and culture can just about see some value in Spanish when it comes to a fortnight in Benidorm.

French is still way more important institutionally at the international level and is spoken on all continents. It is more useful for scientists than Spanish.

I got an A in my French O’level. It’s great on holiday in supermarkets and cafes but of little use elsewhere. Could never use it for work so why so crucial for kids to get a gcse in s language?

I'm sure the switch to Spanish isn't because of Benidorm! Like I said, USA. I have friends dotted around the Southern states and Spanish is useful for them at work, especially the ones in Miami itself. Not all the time, but it gets used. Anyone wanting to make a transition within tech especially tech security systems between here and the USA would put Spanish on their CV if they have it.

It really depends where you live I think, I know my nearest primary teaches French and does other languages as clubs. All the local secondaries do 2/3 languages and more if you include community languages.

And on what staff you can get...DS nursery has a couple of Spanish workers so they have a Spanish lesson (sing a long and counting) once a week which is really cute.

I'm currently trying to teach DS and DH Italian. DH feels really bad he can't speak Tagalog like his parents so I don't want DS to feel that in the future.

We were told Spanish was more useful than French. Nothing to do with Benidorm but because it is spoken more world wide. Even so I fail to see the point in either. My dc will be going into science and engineering. GCSE (if a language was ever required) would never be enough. You’d need degree level to use a language in the work place. Plenty of Eng speaking jobs so it is a moot point.

Quite frankly britain is an embarrassment when it comes to languages. Many people seem to think everywhere should speak english as it's the 'international language'.

What we need is to...
Teach it at a younger age, when people are less self conscious and willing to try and experiment.

Have proper teachers teaching it, not expecting primary teachers who don't speak the language to teach it.

Teach proper conversational skills not repeat after me, which is what it all seems like from what I've been told.

I did GCSE German and passed with a c

I was able to speak fluently and converse with a German girl I met on holiday once.

Ask me anything in German now and I would actually struggle to understand and reply.

I can count to 20 and say the odd phrase but I’m no longer fluent.

I don’t think language is a vital skill anymore. At least not french or German.

Maybe polish would be a better one to learn in the uk?

Getting work in the USA is nigh on impossible if you don’t have a green card so a GCSE in Spanish is even less relavent. Really annoyed my engineer son had to give up DT for it. Utterly pointless.

Agree that GCSE isn't enough. Also, tbh, if you meet the other criteria for a job your employer will just send you on a language course if you need it. Which GCSE wouldn't give you much of an edge in anyway.

The severe grading in MFL exams is so odd; I cannot fathom why the exams have to be so much more difficult than every other subject. This doesn’t benefit anyone - who are the weirdos in charge of MFL A levels and GCSEs? If one happens to read this, perhaps they could explain why the grading is so punative. And don’t give me any rubbish about looking out for what’s done well, because their idea of good is such a ridiculously high standard.
Furthermore, teachers are taught to teach communicatively but the exams are anything but. Surely if a sympathetic native speaker can understand the candidate then they must be doing a good job.
Rant over.

But why bother?

American and Australian kids are no better. Other countries only learn Eng because they have to. Thanks to Brexit we’ll have even less need for a language now. Any jobs in Europe will go to Europeans first. Unemployment here low anyway.

My dc will be going into science and engineering. GCSE (if a language was ever required) would never be enough. You’d need degree level to use a language in the work place

And this is why, as a nation, we are shit at languages. If you really can’t see the point of even trying, well, words fail me.

This is the kind of bollox teachers deal with every single day.

Learning about medieval medicine and the Napoleonic wars is even less useful than Spanish. History GCSE #yawn

When I went to university, a B at GCSE was a requirement, but that was dropped years ago. It's a shame, if only because it emphasises the importance of foreign language, not least because of access to other cultures and scholarship - I only got Bs in French and German, but I had to use sources in both as an undergrad (not languages).

I was rubbish at French and German at school, but as an adult, I'm multi-lingual in other languages. I use traveller's German if absolutely necessary, but I need to read things only published in French a lot (still horrendous at speaking it, though )

Learning from school gives you choices, at the end of the day: try, for example, getting a UN job without fluency in two UN languages, or in the EC with only English. I encourage all my students to learn another language whilst they are undergrads (we have subsidised access to classes for students, and institutional access to Rosetta Stone) because they will have a far wider choice of options in whatever they do next.

teachers are taught to teach communicatively

Depends where they were taught to teach. Certainly that isn’t policy.

It was Blair's Labour government that stopped language being compulsory at schools in 1999.

So that means we can't blame:

• austerity
• Tories
• Brexit

Language learning has been on the decline for the last 18 years. Lots of language teachers have been made redundant in that time. Universities have also dropped modern languages, including Russell Group unis.

The decision to drop compulsory language learning at schools has already had far-reaching consequences and it will take a lot, lot longer than 18 years to reverse this, if its even possible.

It’s not bollox it’s reality. My dh works in tech and engineering, he has never ever needed a language.His children won’t need it. I have an A in French, other than for holiday use it is of no use what so ever.

Sigh. Not even going to bother.

How mature.

It’s reality.

If it isn’t a requirement or needed in the workplace what is the point?

Even RE would be more useful.

I’m brilliant at languages- pass as fluent in 2 I learned at school.
However that’s really unusual. On my degree course I was the only one without a parent speaking that language. And if I go to a country where they don’t speak one of those two languages or English I’m still a dumb foreigner.
It’s a myth other nations are so much better at languages- they’re better at learning English because of all the doors it opens. Or immersion for geographical or social reasons.

I speak 3 languages fluently, there is so much more to language learning than passing tests focusing on grammar and vocabulary.
It opens up a whole new world, different cultures, says of thinking and the ability to understand your own cultural heritage so much better.
And if you are still not convinced, take Brexit, it's a real eye opener to have the ability to read foreign language newspapers ...

We moved to France when my DCs were 10 & 8. They spoke very minimal French. After 6 months they were pretty much fluent and now 3 years down the line can switch between French and English easily.

In French school they start learning English at 4!

My oldest is in the equivalent of year 8 and does French, English, German and Latin (started German in year 7, Latin in 8, next year Spanish!). Languages are huge here, and I think its great!

I agree with your despair @CanILeavenowplease

I can't stand people seeing education as only for job-seeking purposes. Learning a language is an insight into a different culture and way of seeing the world regardless of whether it will get you a job or not. Europeans are often proficient in other European languages, not just English due to its ubiquity.

We could easily get rid of History, English Lit, all languages, Art, Drama, almost anything if the only point is to secure jobs for the majority. I mean clearly all subjects have careers pathways but is that really the only reason for studying them.

Google translate.

Very very few kids will speak a language fluently in the back of GCSE languages. My dc need rngineering, tech and science degrees for their chosen fields so a degree in languages , if they even wanted one, is impossible.

What really annoys me is our school forces it then doesn’t even offer an exchange to immerse students like I did for French. Zilch, no trip. Nothing.

I got a C in both GCSE French and German. Even then I wasn't that fluent, just the basics. I agree that learning starts too late.

I'm currently relearning German using the dualingo app (it's free and has daily exercises) and am really enjoying it. Yes French would be more useful but I enjoy German more, I feel like I can get my tongue round it more.

I just don't think we place enough importance on languages.