To wish there was not a decline in the number of children studying foreign languages

[ForalltheSaints]

According to a BBC survey, a 45% drop over c20 years in the number of language GCSEs taken, with a bigger drop in French, though more taking Spanish.

Apparently because they are perceived as more difficult.

I rejoice in not being the typical Brit or American abroad expecting everyone to speak English. Should we not be more encouraging, perhaps by allowing universities if they wish to insist on one language GCSE alongside English Language and Maths as a condition of entry?

It’s not hard to learn. I suspect most teachers are more than capable of picking it up and teaching it well.

Well I don't find it hard, but lots of people seem to. Plus I don't think primary school teachers have a lot of free time to be learning a load of stuff they never used to have to know.

The syllabus is broken down and you’re teaching one year group at a time. Reading up on passive/ active, modal verbs or fronted adverbials when doing planning really isn’t hard if you have a teaching degree. The new curriculum has been going a few years now so most teachers have taught it over and again for a while.

Good, that's reassuring! I get the impression that we MFL teachers were among the very few to actually welcome the new focus on grammar. It makes such a difference teaching MFL to people who get it.

Interesting discussion.

I am American and the way MFL is taught there can be godawful/nonexistant to very good depending on the school district you are in and what kind of university you went to. I went to a very good school and a top Liberal Arts uni. French started from early primary, simple things until sixth grade (Year 7) when we started to be formally taught. It was a combination of culture (first week, we learned about the history of the major Chateaux in the Loire valley), vocal and grammar. We had to take French until 10th Grade (Year 11). If you dropped French, it was because you had started Spanish in 9th Grade (Year 10) and would continue that until graduation in 12th Grade. Latin was also started in 8th grade and could be continued until graduation. A minimum of one language needed to be taken throughout school.

I stuck with French, and by the time I was in 11th Grade, we were reading, discussing, and writing essays in French on some of the great works of French literature (Moilere, Voltaire, Racine, Rimbaud, Baudelaire, Sartre, Camus, Hugo, Mauriac...). There is no mandatory national examination so each school could tailer the way they taught the language to their student population - I guess my school was quite academic and I think most of the posters here would have hated this kind of teaching.

In uni, you had to continue MFLs for at least 2 years as part of the graduation requirement. IN addition, many students spent their Junior year (third out of 4 years) in total or partially abroad. I had friends start learning Mandarin in their first year, spend their third year in China, and be very comfortable speaking and writing it by graduation.

Professionally, I should have learned Spanish. I trained in medicine in California and a very significant portion of the population I was treating was Spanish only speaking and, although I picked up a workable vocabulary in critical terms, I relied on my nurses and co-workers who were spanish speaking. French did not help me because although I could write and pass oral exams on French lit and art, I didn't know the necessary medical vocabulary so I couldn't try and teach similar words.

I agree with many posters who think that learning an additional language is important for a well rounded education - however I also understand that, to a sizeable percentage of the population, it, along with art including history/music/drama are a frivolity. Perhaps part of the problem is the focus on exams and qualifications which education in this country has. Perhaps there would be greater focus on the pleasure of learning these subjects is obtaining A levels or O levels was not the end goal?

I think it would be great to teach conversational French/Spanish in primary school, or even earlier, as young children pick up accents and new word sounds so much better. Then those who want to study it can take formal qualifications later. But good conversational skills are such an asset. I love modern languages and studied a European language with a year abroad. Only living in the country being surrounded by the language got me to a fluent level although my basic skills were good. Also learning other languages has really helped me with the structure and grammar of English - useful at work for writing reports, summaries, announcements etc and understanding the origin of English words. It's all worthwhile. And enjoyable even!

I believe that education is so much more than achieving exam results. Yes, teachers need to assess how pupils are doing and education courses/ employers need an indicator of the strengths and capabilities of candidates, but reducing education to teaching to an exam does everyone a disservice.

I believe in a broad education to learn as much about life and the world as possible. Languages are an important part of that, for culture, language structure, being out of your comfort zone and being capable of communicating with someone of a very different background. Even if you never go on holiday or work with the language, that learning process has value.

I have forgotten much of the languages I learned. I started with French in y6 and repeated most of it in y7, chose it for GCSE and A-Level. Analysing Moliere in French to the same depth as my English Lit course was hard going. My university offered language modules and I continued with French, picked up the German studied in y8 & 9 and did beginners Spanish. While I didn't have the active vocabulary of Spanish, I found it easy to read because of its similarity to French. Much of my language active vocabulary has faded in 20 years of neglect although it does come back when I dabble on duolingo. It was still worth doing alongside all the other school knowledge that has slipped deep into the archives of my memory.

We teach languages too little too late in the UK. Expecting it to be valued just as pupils hit the self-concious years is a recipe for disaster for mass take-up. DS has begun French, learning topic relevant vocabulary alongside his usual lessons in y3 which is a much more open age to start learning.

I think it would be great to teach conversational French/Spanish in primary school, or even earlier, as young children pick up accents and new word sounds so much better.

I teach French and Spanish in 5 different primary schools. All English primary schools haveto teach an MFL from Year 3. The children are mostly pretty enthusiastic, but there's only so much you can do on one lesson a week (which is the maximum they have time for). You don't really get to conversation level!

We had to do a language GCSE at school, and I picked French as my option because my friends were doing it even though I was stronger at German. Neither were taught well, which put me off pursuing it once I'd scraped a C. I am pleased that they start learning languages sooner now. It seems to start in Year 3 instead of Year 7 at the schools around here, though it is sad that doesn't seem to be helping the uptake.

When I worked in insurance, we'd have foreign medical reports to read (and bills). I got very good at it in several languages - but my personal favourite was the doctor in a Spanish hospital who sent an entire 5 page cardiology report in Latin so that any doctor could read it anywhere in the world.

I think in these times of constricted budgets for state schools, languages should be removed from the curriculum. Most state educated pupils will have entry level jobs, which do not require languages, so why waste time learning about irrelevant things? Those pupils who are likely to have careers in which you need to interact with other cultures are probably the privately educated anyway so these schools could still provide a curriculum for those who are interested. We waste far too much money on a curriculum that is useless for your average citizen who has little interest in other cultures.

Wow. State school people don't get jobs where you interact with other cultures? Seriously?!

@MitziK

Know that feeling......my Spanish is generally limited to body parts and injury types!

Most state educated pupils will have entry level jobs, which do not require languages, so why waste time learning about irrelevant things? Those pupils who are likely to have careers in which you need to interact with other cultures are probably the privately educated anyway so these schools could still provide a curriculum for those who are interested.

What a pile of crap!

We waste far too much money on a curriculum that is useless for your average citizen who has little interest in other cultures.

WTF???

Don’t think you necessarily have to start “early” as even adults can pick up languages very well, better than we are given credit for anyway! However secondary is a good place to get a linguistic base they can build on if they have the aptitude and motivation.

Who let Moggy in?

Quite right BBCK, mustn’t let those oiks get ideas above their station.

We are in the Internet age. The throwback to victoriana when posh people spoke a second language to show how well educated they were is over. The world of business speaks and continues to speak english. It’s just a fact. There is no need to learn any other language. Better learn to computer coding.

I really don't understand the desire to make children learn something that's going to be useless for the vast majority of them. I have yet to think on one benefit to all that time I wasted been forced to study german and French.

@Slowknitter give Arabic a go.
Once you've got the alphabet (along with the cursive versions for starting, medical and final positions) and vowel markings nailed, its a incredibly phonetic language. My kids dont know the translation, but can pretty much read anything you give to them just by sounding it out. We live in the middle east. Knowing minimal (I can count, recite the alphabet, hello, bye and thank you) Arabic isnt an issue.

BECK.WTAF

I live and work in the Netherlands and the vast majority of expats I know didn’t get privately educated.

BBCK, haha, that made me laugh

You are very naughty

Cheers Babygrey 7 😀. You’ve obviously read the whole of this depressing thread.

The world of business speaks and continues to speak english. It’s just a fact. There is no need to learn any other language.

No, the world of business speaks many languages. And monolingual Britons are increasingly competing with plurilingual Brexit proof holders of multiple passports .

For many in Wales as they have to now study and sit an exam in Welsh at GCSE level, they feel they already study a 'foreign' language.
I wish languages had a higher profile. I try to welcome children in lots of different languages to my classroom but they always inevitably say 'Miss we are in English now!
So many subjects are being left out in schools and as someone above said, things we need to know are never taught.

Soooo in order to compete which out of the many languages used in Europe are you suggesting children learn to degree level( the level needed to use a language accurately in the workplace)? What exactly is going to happen to achieving actual useful skills needed in the workplace? The CEOs lauded further down the thread are often devoid of useful skills aside from smooshing, a complaint you can also often lay at much of middle management who will increasingly find themselves out of work. Skills take years to achieve you can’t just show horn an A level or degree in languages into the mix.

Computer coding would be far more useful if we are going to dictate anything. Two of my children can code in several languages, it will take years of study and specialism to further hone their skills in engineering and coding.It wouldn’t be for everybody( myself included) and I don’t think kids should be forced into it any more than languages.

Workers are going to need to be increasingly more computer savvy and prepared to work from home. I really don’t see what GCSE in French or Mandarin and the ability to order a cup of tea in France or some parts of China would add to that.