That we can afford the chicken!?

[hungryfordinner]

So I've had an argument with my husband and really need some independent perspective.

We are a family of three - me, husband and toddler

• we own our house outright (paid off last summer)!
• we both earn good salaries- after childcare we have about £5k per month to go towards living and saving. We each get £500 to cover tube transport / mobile / personal expenses, so £4000 is free. We are saving for an overseas home and our child's future. There is plenty in savings if we need it.

And yet- today I realised we had no meat in the fridge aside from some sausages, no vegetables apart from tomatoes; and we only get groceries on a Sunday. Not fancying sausages, I bought some chicken breasts in Sainsbury's for £6, and came home and made dinner for the three of us, using the tomatoes and pasta we already had.

I thought that my husband would be pleased I had dinner ready (Wednesday is my day off; he has Fridays off and never has dinner ready for me when I get home).

Well, he has come home and kicked off big time about me buying the chicken. Apparently we need to make what's in the fridge last a whole week, even if it means pesto pasta or tinned meals. And we shouldn't be eating so much meat.

We spend max £40 on food / nappies (his rule) per week and honestly it's driving me crazy. Yes- some people do this and manage fine. I get this. It's not impossible but it's not fun.

But AIBU to think that since we are in such a fortunate financial position, we can splash out on a bit of mid-week chicken? Why the need to control our existence in such a shitty way?

Wait - while I'm at it- a cleaner. I always said to him I want a cleaner when I am back at work. Our time together is too valuable to waste time cleaning. But nope. Instead I spent at least an hour of my day off cleaning skid marks that his disgusting mate had left in our family bathroom last night, scrubbing the rest of that bathroom down, vacuuming and mopping the ground floor, and doing laundry.

All while trying to entertain a toddler or get him to nap (bloody hard work).

On Saturdays we both do a full clean of the house, either while the child sleeps or if he won't sleep,!we take turns cleaning / entertaining child.

I'm sick of living such a miserly existence when we can well and truly afford to live a little!

Mommybunny yes you will get shouted down. Some victims of abuse don’t realise they are being abused or get so used to the abuse it’s the norm for them. I think it’s quite obvious it’s abuse. Telling a partner how much they can spend, fining them for getting things wrong. Going mad over chicken? This is probably tip of the iceberg. The op realises her husband is a twat herself. You obviously are lucky enough not to have been abused as you wouldn’t be saying what you are if you had. The fact the op has gone quiet says it all. She’s not contradicting it’s not abuse, I think this thread has opened her eyes to the bad situation she’s in. The last thing she needs is someone making out it’s her fault that she’s not making the arsehole feel good about himself. There’s nothing lighthearted in what the op has said. Anyone that has been in an abusive relationship can see red flags all over the place. Your comments are unhelpful. Sorry.

*contradictibg it is abuse.

but a lot of men, even now, worry tremendously about providing for their families

Yes but not this man. This man objects to buying food FFS.

Fwiw, I'm a sahm...we are on a tight budget. My oh never comments on how I choose to spend our money and has no idea what I spend on food a week.

The more I think about the post by mommubunny the more annoyed I feel. That’s a typical attitude that the woman must be doing something wrong to make the man behave in a bad way. No! Some men, and woman are bullies and need no excuse for their sadistic nasty behaviour- it makes them feel powerful and in control. When I left my abusuve husband one of my uncles said (didn’t even know he’d abused me) that maybe next time in a relation I could be more mysterious??? He had no idea why we had split up or who left who but it was assumed it was my fault because id not been a great wife. What a disgusting attitude. It’s no wonder victims of abuse stay quiet. They feel useless against their abuser as it is but knowing how judgemental people will be doesn’t help. Wake up to the fact that no bad behaviour is justified because they don’t feel appreciated. Victims of abuse need understanding and support not do-gooders coming out with crap based on no experience.

Thank you all again for your comments. Can't believe how much support is getting.:

Had a long day - my son had a temp at nursery and had to be collected early- luckily, the in-laws collected him, and he was fine and got fussed over all day. Just teething woes.

Husband took and early mark and did the dinner and bedtime routine, so I took a rare opportunity to have Friday afternoon office drinks. I haven't done that in the two months I've been back from mat leave.

Get home and husband hasn't cooked dinner (which I always do when I'm at home with the baby), and whinged that he'd done the bedroom routine, so I had to magic up some sausage pasta with various condiments and frozen vegetables.

He knows I'm pissed off. I am planning my conversation with him for the weekend but am planning it like a work meeting -

1. i contribute to the household (more than you but that's not the point)!
2. here are all the instances in recent weeks that you've been irrational and overbearing
3. how this affects me, our son and our family and
4. what needs to change for this to work

So much to consider and I will read back through all the comments.
X

@hungryfordinner I know you have a lot to read through but a few people have asked what would happen if you didn’t pay a fine? Have you ever questioned the fines, and if so, what happened?

Good luck OP, sounds like a good strategy.

Ps- please be assured I've always fed our baby good food. Lots of batch cooked vegetable based stuff that freezes well, and fresh cooked meat in the last few months as he's progressed with weaning. I do need to fix our food situation though, as he's getting too big for baby-specific food (and loves real food).

@IHateUncleJamie I don't know what would happen if I didn't pay a fine. It's a good question! I will add this to tomorrow's agenda .. no, I will not pay a fine for feeding our family.

Good luck op xx

@hungryfordinner Well done. All your husband’s behaviour is wrong and controlling but the fines are a HUGE HUGE red flag.

mommybunny
I intensely object to your statement:
I know on MN we aren’t supposed to give a shit about men’s feelings
It is absolutely untrue and a nasty libellous and spiteful comment. In addition to which we have men on MN whose contribution is highly respected and invaluable. For your information, the condition the OP's husband might have is also seen in women many of whom bully and control their husband. It is less common in women but another condition of great difficulty to live with is of higher proportions in women than men and some (not all by any means) professionals think it may be a "female form".

If you think the extent to which the OP is clearly suffering and obviously reveals this in front of the husband who continues to bully and control her with his draconian rules and sanctions is something that she "owes it to him" to sit down and discuss regarding in particular the money arrangements, you are not reading what she has written.
You speak as if he is some kind of reasonable amicable man. Yet she has told him many times, for example, that he does not buy enough cat food yet all the time he still gets too few tins and blames her for it running out. Or he fines her for filling the kettle too full when preparing to clean the baby's bottles! Just two examples. She is living in a situation where she is constantly looking over her shoulder wondering when she is going to be in trouble for the next "felony" in his rule book. She must be in a state of complete tension.

One of my Controller's anger-points would be if I did not fill the dishwasher how he liked. But he would change the rules. Have you ever been doing a simple routine domestic daily task in your own home, terrified in case you might do it wrongly? Always waiting, prepared for the next thing that he would pick on and make you feel terrible about? All the time, scared of what you were doing in your own home in case your husband "found out" it was not good enough?
Yet you think he is someone she "owes it to" to have a reasonable chat.

I really do not know which planet you live on. Planet A Man May Make his Wife's Life Unbearable? Planet Control your Wife With Every Petty Meanness and Cruelty until she is Completely Depressed and Crushed to Pieces?
I cannot believe that you have missed seeing what is happening to the OP. The conditions she is living under are utterly unreasonable, intolerable, cruel and constitute mental cruelty, financial abuse, and unreasonable behaviour causing extreme distress. On a day in day out basis this will lead to Complex PTSD. I know this, both from personal and Professional experience.
This man's condition is characterised, among many other things, by a lack of empathy. Your attitude to the situation the OP is in makes me wonder about your ability to empathise.

last line should read "to the OP in this makes me..."

@hungryfordinner
You are doing really well. btw I was sure you fed your son well.

I hope it's ok if I try to offer some ideas , I'd like to suggest a few things:
-When talking to H please do not be apologetic about anything and
-do not make excuses either.
When you point out the unreasonable things just say that

• "These are unreasonable, I will not tolerate any more of this."

Similarly don't say "as our son is eating more adult food we need more food money".

• Keep it simple just say the food money is inadequate.

Make sure you -say that issuing fines is demeaning and -you will not be subject to that kind of attitude or regime.

Finally, may I please ask you to take the advice people have given here, to think ahead very seriously and to start protecting your interests regarding your money? I have come across this kind of behaviour before , not just because of my own husband who was extraordinarily mean, but because I have done Psychology research and have been a Counsellor. I don't want to upset you, but I'd like to make sure you are prepared in the event that he will not change or worse that he vows to change and then does not. I would like you to have your savings in your own savings account where he cannot reach them and not to pay as much into your joint account.

IHateUncleJamie is right about the red flag and I see other red flags of coercive, controlling, unreasonable behaviour. Put these into google and see what you get. Also try You Tube (but beware of the not good people), try looking up Covert Narcissism esp Stephanie Lyn or Also "Thrive after abuse" and "Surviving Narcissism" by Dr Les Carter and Covert Narcissism talks by him and by Dr Craig Malkin. Find a talk about Boundaries and how to set them and another about how these controlling people use power - I think this happens to you - I have found this one

I shall be thinking of you. I'm a praying type so I'll pray for you if you don't mind. We are all here to support you. Think of us, you are not alone. We will all be sending you good wishes and supportive energy! Well done for getting this far!

Lots of love

Well done op.
Don’t back down.
Him not making dinner was deliberate btw

I agree - not making dinner was punishment for you having work drinks. You should've told him that you'd phone for a takeaway rather than cobble together a meal - call his bluff

OP - this is nasty - it's not about £6 or buying chicken, it's about control. With people like this you get bogged down trying to understand where they're coming from - is £6 too much to spend? Should we not be eating chicken in the week? It's bollocks, you're not having to watch the pennies when it comes to food, this is entirely about control. I would get as far away from this man as possible.

Good luck but be ready for him to diminish what you saying

E.g. "here are all the instances in recent weeks that you've been irrational and overbearing" won't achieve anything he will just hit back with all your misdemeanours...

Rather than hashing over the past let him know how it s going to be..tell him you won't put up anymore and will no longer pay fines or be dictated to.
You will buy nice food
You will spend a food budget of 130 per week
Keep your lines ready and stay calm

And also that you will put the lights on at home when it's dark!

Does he monitor your use of hot water when washing?

@hungryfordinner you are currently planning your weekends conversation as if it were with a reasonable person. I’m not at all sure it is given this fines business and punishing you by not having a meal today and sending you to buy the cat food Thursdays that he refuses to let you buy on the weekend.
When people are abusive it’s an entirely different ball game. I’m not saying your husband is definitely, but there are a lot of hallmarks. You need to think about : what if he simply refuses to admit he is unreasonable. What if he says it is actually your fault (& people who have been in these relationships start to believe the problem is their fault) What if he thinks you should be fined tomorrow for trying to have the conversation at all. Remember that if he is unreasonable , you don’t have to convince him. You probably can’t. But you know you are being fair and he is nuts and you need to be able to lay down the law of what you will do, which is something you can decide. You don’t need his permission to spend money you earn.
Think carefully through these before having the conversation please.

I think he needs to read this thread! These fines! They are not rational! Does he realise how crazy it all sounds? If you mentioned the fines to him in front of another family member I wonder would he be embarrassed? He should be. If he is not I would seriously doubt his sanity.

You have £48k pa expendable income and spend 2k of it on food? What a miserable existence!

All very well saving for another home, but you cant eat a bit of bloody chicken when you feel like it? What are you going to do in your lovely holiday home, sit in it eating beans on toast?

Time to read the riot act.

1. £40 isn't a hige amount to spend on food, especiaply if you can afford to be a bit more relaxed about it.
2. Pay for the cleaner out of your wage and definitely don't clean on your day off.
3. Consider very carefully if you want to continue to live a miserly life before any more children.
4. Consider very carefully whether this is what you want for the rest of your life.

I get you've been into the save everything to pay off the mortgage mode and old habits die hard but surely paying off the mortgage before you had children was to make life easier.

How is DH going to cope when the kids are bigger and have stomachs that are bottomless pits, all the extra actvities - money seems to flow out like Niagra Falls while they are growing.

I agree that your agenda is a bit too ‘backward looking’. You risk it descending into a pointless argument after Point one. He’ll be keen to turn things around on you, and you’ve got form for letting him!

Just write down 3 things that WILL be different from now on.

You don’t need to justify anything, since you’re working in the best interests of the kids and household. You can always give a few of your past examples as your reasons for coming to the conclusions you have. But this is a time for setting boundaries and taking back control (even in tiny ways), not a time for arguing with him about the past.

It’s more powerful (and less confrontational) to say ‘There will be no fining in the house, under any circumstances, from today onwards.’ than to say ‘I really think it’s unreasonable that you fine me for ... and ...’

Your list isn’t bad, but try flipping the order and see how much more powerful it is. Start by saying the current situation is untenable and you wont be continuing. Then outline what WILL be changing in order that you & the kids can change to a positive healthy life. Then (if you must) outline what’s been unreasonable behaviour, and that if he’s going to live by ‘whoever has the gold makes the rules’ he’d better take a closer look at where the money is actually coming from.

Make it clear that your lives will be operating under a different financial strategy, he just needs to let you know if he wants in or out of the new plan. Out means separation.

@hungryfordinner I truly hope the conversation with your DH goes well. I was so pleased you stayed for work drinks, it doesn’t matter that dinner wasn’t ready, the important thing is that you did something for you. When you sit down with DH, prepare in advance a list of what you need/want to achieve first. These are non-negotiable and choose your language carefully - ie I need, not I would like. Your leverage on this is having your salary paid into your account, over which he will have no control. If at any point you feel you are not able to make your point and/or you are not being listened to, pause the conversation and leave the room. Good luck