That we can afford the chicken!?

[hungryfordinner]

So I've had an argument with my husband and really need some independent perspective.

We are a family of three - me, husband and toddler

• we own our house outright (paid off last summer)!
• we both earn good salaries- after childcare we have about £5k per month to go towards living and saving. We each get £500 to cover tube transport / mobile / personal expenses, so £4000 is free. We are saving for an overseas home and our child's future. There is plenty in savings if we need it.

And yet- today I realised we had no meat in the fridge aside from some sausages, no vegetables apart from tomatoes; and we only get groceries on a Sunday. Not fancying sausages, I bought some chicken breasts in Sainsbury's for £6, and came home and made dinner for the three of us, using the tomatoes and pasta we already had.

I thought that my husband would be pleased I had dinner ready (Wednesday is my day off; he has Fridays off and never has dinner ready for me when I get home).

Well, he has come home and kicked off big time about me buying the chicken. Apparently we need to make what's in the fridge last a whole week, even if it means pesto pasta or tinned meals. And we shouldn't be eating so much meat.

We spend max £40 on food / nappies (his rule) per week and honestly it's driving me crazy. Yes- some people do this and manage fine. I get this. It's not impossible but it's not fun.

But AIBU to think that since we are in such a fortunate financial position, we can splash out on a bit of mid-week chicken? Why the need to control our existence in such a shitty way?

Wait - while I'm at it- a cleaner. I always said to him I want a cleaner when I am back at work. Our time together is too valuable to waste time cleaning. But nope. Instead I spent at least an hour of my day off cleaning skid marks that his disgusting mate had left in our family bathroom last night, scrubbing the rest of that bathroom down, vacuuming and mopping the ground floor, and doing laundry.

All while trying to entertain a toddler or get him to nap (bloody hard work).

On Saturdays we both do a full clean of the house, either while the child sleeps or if he won't sleep,!we take turns cleaning / entertaining child.

I'm sick of living such a miserly existence when we can well and truly afford to live a little!

Well good for you @Elleyess. But I think this would be a very poor course of action for OP to take in this case. Looks like we'll just have to agree to differ on that.

Thanks @Sb74. I was with an abuser for 20 years so I know they won't change on the basis of a print out. Far more likely that it will result in further punishments, in my experience. Glad you're free of it now.

Thanks. Glad you are too xx

Sb74. I completely agree with you. I went through the same. I am so sorry you had to suffer. It's awful but there are quite a lot of people like this man. Getting the OP to see he will not change and is manipulative is difficult at the beginning.
Do you remember how you managed to get away in the end? It's so difficult to do especially with children. I think the OP must get her finances under her own control and only pay into the household account a fair amount. I've been recommending she puts her half of the savings into her own name too.

She needs to start quietly planning her future. Remembering he will be cunning, manipulative and he will not play fair. I wish she had some actual support. People who could keep her going. Did you have anyone? I was unable to go to anyone. The only person who knew was my dear friend J and she was dying of cancer.

No disrespect to those that have fortunately for them not experienced abuse from their partner, but it’s not like dealing with a regular person. It’s a whole different ball game dealing with these people. They do not respond to things like the majority of people would. My ex made me lots of big meals to feed me up, I wasn’t allowed to cook. On the two occasions I did cook in four years, he spat it out and threw the plate across the room saying it was shit. I was studying for exams and he circled the table like a shark saying I was thick and I’d never pass my exams, He isolated me from my friends, I folded away a pile of clothes that he had in the corner and he went mad and took them back out of the wardrobe and threw them on the floor, he screwed up shirts that I ironed for him, the list of mental abuse goes on and on. They think they are right. Get out op, please. Xx

Thank you. I went to live with my dad. I had separate bank accounts to him so was ok there. It was such a hard thing to do and my colleagues at work knew in the end. The way I made myself do it was I told my boss we were getting divorced because once I told work I wouldn’t want to look stupid going back to him. That’s what made me finally able to do it.

Ellyess - sorry you went through a bad time too. Hope all is ok now x

Sb74 TheCreativeLife Let's not have a battle! We're all on the one same side here. OK, the story was a misfire and it wouldn't help a heap of shhhht like him. I get the message! But no need to attack me! I want to help the OP as much as you and we're all putting forward our ideas and experiences. In the end only she can decide how to proceed. The print out was by no means meant to be the magic thing to change him completely. He won't change. They don't. I believe she has to get out or get him out would be better. I have been saying that all along.

So sorry to hear how long you had to suffer Creative Life. I was under the thumb of one for over 20 yrs too and still feel angry about losing what should have been the happiest years when I had my health and the children were young. I didn't even know at the time that it was abuse! I just got more and more depressed. So it's good that the OP has contacted MN and is getting info here.

I’m not attacking you. 😘I know you meant well. I just feel so much for the OP. Brings back horrific memories. Just the pure pigheadedness and nastiness. I hope the OP is ok as it’s not easy to see stuff in writing.

OP why are you completely ignoring everyone's responses

Your husband either has his priorities wrong or has a control issue. Either way I would refuse to go along with it. It is not fair to you, your child or ultimately your husband. I am all for budgeting and saving and agree totally with planning your finances for the future but you need to live along the way and you are both very fortunate. You have a mortgage free house in one of the most expensive cities in the world, a more than ample income and presumably a large safety net in savings. Yet you are spending less than £40 a week in food, assuming the nappies also come out of that which is the sort of money a family on universal credit would pay. I am not saying you could not survive on that as a food bill but why would you want to when you can afford a lot more and undoubtedly have a more varied diet with a few luxuries thrown in. Who wants to be the richest person in the graveyard?

You need to talk frankly to your husband and tell him things have to change. He does not get to treat you as a non participant in your marriage. I think I would be furious if my husband checked my online shopping list and removed things. You are not a child. Stand up to him for your sons sake. As for the fines, you must know that isn't normal.

Sunnycoco I guess the OP is working so that is why she is not responding yet.

OP - your DH is a full-grown man. he can exist on white carbs and stodge and it wouldn't harm his development.

Your child, however, needs a range of good food. It is essential to his development to have a range of vitamins, proteins, minerals. He cannot develop properly on a diet of tinned ravioli and pasta.

If nothing else, if not for you, then for your child - buy him, cook him and feed him a decent diet.

And ffs do not pay any fines! WtAf? Fined for feeding your (joint) child a decent meal?

Sb74 Many thanks cha's kind of you. He kills himself when I got custody of the children. A while ago. I am disabled and he fixed things so I would have no money so I really do have to eat cheaply and keep the heating off. But life without him is Heaven!
Believe it or not I am just about to go through a historical case that I decided to report - not my ex. The perpetrator's ugly head popped back into my life and it was too much. I can't talk as it's a Police matter. But I am not completely on top of things at the mo!
Thanks for your very kind message. Do hope you are ok and life gets better and better.
The things your abuser did to you are very similar to what mine did. I'm glad you said that it's nothing like what people think. It really is impossible to explain. I was studying too and he used to do the same kind of thing. Cutting you off from family and friends is the classic, they do it so you are their complete prey.
Have you read about or looked at any information about Narcissists? There are good YouTube talks. Bad ones too of course.

I learned a lot after mine died actually and went on to do Counselling.
There are so many people, mainly women, being abused in this way.

Take care of yourself. I think the help you and TheCreativeLife can give the OP is the best of all. You - well, I too,- have been there. You know.

@Ellyess I'm sorry to hear your story and I'm so glad that there is so much more awareness nowadays. Back then you just shut up and got on with it. I remember being told by family "You have to work at a marriage you know" like it was my fault or something.

I became chronically depressed and suffered from anxiety, and I was diagnosed with post traumatic stress disorder. Nearly 15 years on I still suffer. I grieve for the life I could have had, for the years I lost. I hope OP doesn't end up in that situation, no woman should have to go there.

cha's??? that is really, also kills - killed

TheCreativeLife
Thank you. I know exactly what you mean about no support from family. My mother was sort of infatuated with him in fact and used to fuss around him. He hated her, so blamed me for her attentions to him. He was nearer her age though, being 14 years older than I. I nearly wrote to Princess Diana and told her to run away when Prince Charles said "Whatever love is". My husband would not buy me an engagement ring and never said he loved me. In the early years if I said "Do you love me?" he'd say "I'm here aren't I?"
When I went to the Solicitor for a divorce, he couldn't get any grounds for one from my muddled explanation. Then he put his pen down, sat back and said, "Tell me what happens from when you get up in the morning." I started talking and he just sat there. Ages later he said that he had plenty of information. It was a very strong case of mental cruelty and abuse. Today emotional abuse is recognised. I was over 40 when I was told I had suffered it!
My husband had been recognised early in our marriage by the way he looked away from me and refused to answer me when we were in a conversation with a couple. The man was a Psychiatrist. His wife was a friend of mine. But they did not explain anything to me except to say to him that he was cutting me out and it was a hostile act. Of course he punished me for that.
I am deeply sorry you still suffer. I have PTSD and am on God's amount of tablets. I really do sympathise. I wish I had something comforting I could say to help. You are not alone. There are many of us. We will get through and we will do all we can to make sure that younger women do not suffer from this.

I am so much happier on my own! I have no desire to find anyone else. I can do as I please and make my own decisions. Some men have tried to get into my life and I haven't liked them. One was evil.

I have five very small rescued dogs. Yes, it sounds crazy but I didn't intend to have the last two. Anyway it really doesn't make any difference because they do everything together and being small don't take up much room or eat all that much! They are brilliant company! I've had one now for 8 years and the most recent for 5. I can only have small dogs that can get enough exercise in the garden which luckily is a good size, as I am disabled. They play together and look after each other and are really funny. They are my anti-depressants!
I really do hope you have something in your life that gives you comfort and that you can enjoy. I think the amount of time you put into trying to help the OP here is wonderful. We won't give up!

@Ellyess, I am glad to hear you have found peace in your life. I too have many animals and they bring me great joy. I think knowing that we are not alone in this is a comfort and a torment at the same time. It's appalling that so many (mostly) women have suffered this way.

Your exH's words "I'm here aren't I" could have come from my exH's mouth. He said the almost exact same thing. They think they're so special don't they, yet they are no more than sad reflections of each other.

Anyway, enough about me. I hope OP comes back to draw strength from this group of supporters, and I hope she's ok

Having read 90% of the thread ( I may have missed a bit in the middle) you have prompted me to write my first ever response ( I'm a bit of a reader rather than a poster).

I grew up in a household just like yours.
I have deformed feet as we were made to wear our shoes until our toes pushed through the cheap plastic they were made from yet my high earning father bought himself a flat in the west end of London just for him and his mistress. We grew up in an enormous ( but freezing and semi derelict ) house but I don't want to waffle on about myself on your thread.

Just to say, it took my mother many years and a lot of inner strength to leave him but the damage to us kids has been permanent in a variety of ways.
If he couldn't have afforded new shoes, decent food and heat etc then I don't feel we would feel the same about it at all, my husband grew up in a low income household but his parents strived to provide enough to eat etc.

I read back one of your posts that said he grumbles about his siblings being 'lazy' etc but they are all high income households. I think that's his 'key'; He wishes to keep up with them but it has become an unhealthy obsession and one that has a negative impact on you and your child.

I'm now seeing the life end of someone who hoarded money and was very miserly ( and the behaviour trait crosses over into other parts of their lives later too) and it's very sad.

My elderly father is now in a care home and not with it but has a 2 million £ hoard that just sits there. His pension income covers his fees however he made very poor life relationship choices so he could protect his hoard and I see the outcome at the end of his life. It's very sad .

I hope you get enough advice and support on this thread so you can choose how to move forward with your life. Your biggest hurdle is that he probably doesn't consider that his behaviour is a problem and will refuse to delve into his own psyche to see where the meanness came from.

Good luck OP

I think I would have shoved the fine up his arse.

My husband used to be very frugal and tight, thanks to his upbringing (his parents were wealthy). He is much better now after 15 years with me, but will still happily eat stale food and things that are really passed their best. It irritates me as we are both high earners and there is really no need, but that's his decision I guess.

The other thing we do is to have separate accounts, so we both pay an equal amount for house and bills and then everything else is ours to do as we please with, including savings.

Let me guess, it was his idea for you to have £500 spending money per month? I'd stop that for a start. Save what you want, spend what you want.

@fiftysixyearsyoung
Well hopefully you will get a good inheritance, not that it’s any compensation

I can see how the “fines” might have started in almost a lighthearted way (please tell us OP that there have been some lighthearted moments in your life with this man?!) back when you really had to scrimp and save, as a way of maintaining financial discipline and disincentivising waste, sort of similar to a “swear jar”. I’d like to know where the fines went/go - straight to the pocket of the non-offender or to a common pot? How are the levels determined? Has he ever paid fines himself? As others have queried, it would also be interesting to know what would happen if you just refused to pay - do you think he’d leave you? Hit you? Sulk and ignore you?

It sounds as if you shared his goal at one time of paying off the mortgage and saving for the next venture. (Has the planet-saving thing always been part of the plan or is that new?). You were prepared to put up with a lot of “doing without” in furtherance of that goal. Now you have a child, may be planning more (?) and you’re tired of working so hard and living on a shoestring and feeling guilty for cutting yourself a tiny bit of well-earned slack. YANBU in the slightest.

I don’t know if you are in an abusive situation, and I really don’t think any person who has posted here knows either, regardless of whatever abuse they have experienced themselves. If you are afraid for the safety of yourself or your toddler if you don’t comply with your husband’s wishes then you must leave immediately, but only you know that. If you have never tried to change the situation because you’re too averse to confrontation then abuse accusations may be a bit premature. You have every right to tell him you are going to feel free to top up shopping when you feel the need, as well as increase the weekly budget, and if he won’t do the cleaning himself you will get someone in. It doesn’t need to be confrontational.

I may get shouted down for this, but acknowledging his contribution to your family’s financial security will help him feel valued too and may help lower the temperature of the discussion and make it less confrontational. I know on MN we aren’t supposed to give a shit about men’s feelings but a lot of men, even now, worry tremendously about providing for their families. They get validation from the ability to do that, and taking away their control over that can make them anxious. That doesn’t excuse “kicking off” over a deviation from his plan and if the current situation isn’t making you happy (because there are few who would be happy in it - fines indeed!) you owe it to all of you to discuss changing it.

He fined you for boiling 'too much' water for your child's bottle?!

Are you fucking kidding me?

Woman, stop crying and pull your shit together for your child.

I'm sorry if that's harsh but you have a choice whether to stay and your baby dies not.

My partner and I have less then a quarter of the disposable income you have and my child has organic food for every single meal.

You leaving child will never get his first years back, what they eat now is so important for their growth and health.

You need to feed your child properly!

Your child is being abused and you are letting it happen so you can have a holiday home?

You have a naice job which many people in this country would be lucky to have. Stop burying your head in the sand.

What if your child gets sick because you have been feeding him shit?

I'm sure your husband is financially abusing you (probably in other ways too).

But I can't see past the damage you are doing to this child.

Your first stop should be your health visitor to check that your child is actually developing properly.

If you were a 'chav' your kid would probably be taken away if you weren't feeding him properly.

At the very least you would have extra scrutiny on your parenting.

But because you have money, people just look the other way.

It makes me so mad.

• your baby does not

@Meandwinealone the biggest irony is that 40% after the IHT allowance goes to the govt lol ! He's be really p**d off about that if he had all his cognitive thingys .

Extreme miserliness is def a MH issue though.