That we can afford the chicken!?

[hungryfordinner]

So I've had an argument with my husband and really need some independent perspective.

We are a family of three - me, husband and toddler

• we own our house outright (paid off last summer)!
• we both earn good salaries- after childcare we have about £5k per month to go towards living and saving. We each get £500 to cover tube transport / mobile / personal expenses, so £4000 is free. We are saving for an overseas home and our child's future. There is plenty in savings if we need it.

And yet- today I realised we had no meat in the fridge aside from some sausages, no vegetables apart from tomatoes; and we only get groceries on a Sunday. Not fancying sausages, I bought some chicken breasts in Sainsbury's for £6, and came home and made dinner for the three of us, using the tomatoes and pasta we already had.

I thought that my husband would be pleased I had dinner ready (Wednesday is my day off; he has Fridays off and never has dinner ready for me when I get home).

Well, he has come home and kicked off big time about me buying the chicken. Apparently we need to make what's in the fridge last a whole week, even if it means pesto pasta or tinned meals. And we shouldn't be eating so much meat.

We spend max £40 on food / nappies (his rule) per week and honestly it's driving me crazy. Yes- some people do this and manage fine. I get this. It's not impossible but it's not fun.

But AIBU to think that since we are in such a fortunate financial position, we can splash out on a bit of mid-week chicken? Why the need to control our existence in such a shitty way?

Wait - while I'm at it- a cleaner. I always said to him I want a cleaner when I am back at work. Our time together is too valuable to waste time cleaning. But nope. Instead I spent at least an hour of my day off cleaning skid marks that his disgusting mate had left in our family bathroom last night, scrubbing the rest of that bathroom down, vacuuming and mopping the ground floor, and doing laundry.

All while trying to entertain a toddler or get him to nap (bloody hard work).

On Saturdays we both do a full clean of the house, either while the child sleeps or if he won't sleep,!we take turns cleaning / entertaining child.

I'm sick of living such a miserly existence when we can well and truly afford to live a little!

Gosh, I’m on JSA with a large rent shortfall that I have to pay out of my measly payment and we still have midweek chicken!

You’ve got to say “no” to him, OP. What would have happened if you’d have refused to pay the ridiculous “fine”? What would happen if you said, “I earn plenty of money and I’m going to spend more of MY OWN money on food and a cleaner whether you like it or not”?
He needs to accept that you don’t want to live like this and you need to be able to say it. If you cannot say that safely, as something important to you, to someone who is supposed to love you as your nearest and dearest that isn’t a relationship, it’s a dictatorship and you need to get out x

HOW is this a boast?

What pleasure is there in having money in the bank but living in fear of overspending (on essentials, to boot), not because you're up to your overdraft limit or won't make the rent, but because your own fucking husband will punish you. Working but not even having financial autonomy.

I don't think that's anything to boast about.

This is financial abuse. No one would be calling it boasting if her husband had punched her in the stomach for, in his view, overstepping the mark, and she came on here to ask if she was right to object. Surely everyone knows that abusers are pretty good at twisting the narrative and convincing the victim they are in the wrong - the OP shouldn't have to worry about offending some posters for telling her story. The financial information is relevant here - she hasn't told us that much, no details of cars, possessions etc. The numbers give context which means we can see just how outrageous OP's H's behaviour is.

Poor show to be giving someone in an abusive relationship a kicking.

I am a fridge ninja and do my best to get to a completely empty fridge before shopping day, minimising food waste where possible. I buy fairly plain, wholesome and high quality food, including free range eggs, organic milk and free range chicken.

Therefore I sometimes silently roll my eyes a bit when my DH suddenly comes home with non-free range chicken breasts and dry looking baby veg that has flown further than I ever have, when we already have food in the fridge. So he does have a teeny weeny point on the food-waste/ethics spectrum.

But he is being completely unreasonable to expect you to keep to a food budget of £40 or for your toddler to eat tinned ravioli. As for the fine :(. That is shocking.

PresidentHump
Mumsnet is for everyone. Any woman, at any income level, can be physically, emotionally, sexually or financially abused in their relationship. It has happened to some of the wealthiest women in the land. Mumsnet is here for them. If you don't like it, there is a small x in the corner of your screen that you can feel free to use.

I think everyone is being a bit harsh (surprise!)

It sounds like while you were paying off the mortgage, you introduced some tight financial disciplines that have become ingrained habits. It's become the norm, and you've not reviewed why you're still doing it - for what goals, how appropriate it is.

Your dh likes it that way, so he's not inclined to change it. You on the other hand, are having a "life's too short" moment.

I would approach it by sitting down with him and reviewing your long term financial goals, and suggesting you slow down the savings pace a little, whilst enjoying life a bit more.

It might just be that he hasn't considered the fact that you've got no need to be this frugal any more. What started as good, sensible intentions have become a millstone round your necks.

It might be that he is desperate to leave work and move to your home country, hence the major effort.

This is one of the most depressing updates I think I’ve ever read, despite it not being particularly detailed, as it’s so defeatist and low. Your husband’s behaviour is just so subtly nasty and abusive. I would murder any fuckwit that tried to force me not to eat properly, let alone inflict a cheap diet on my child. It’s totally outrageous that he would impose what is essentially a diet of poverty into his family. It’s abuse and he needs help - and you need help to leave OP.

So the way I look at it, something terrible could happen tomorrow. So it’s fine to be prudent but there is little point struggling if you can afford not to. Enjoy life for what it is now

I don’t earn tons but having a cleaner fortnightly means that I properly enjoy my time off with my kids whilst they are young. That’s only a few years really so I think it’s really worth spending money on. Same applies to holidays. I don’t eat meat but I definitely buy treats every now again. Life is too short.

You are a family - there is no reason why DH should always decide how money is spent.

It’s abuse and he needs help - and you need help to leave OP.
Agree with this.

Your husband is a controlling bully and a miser.
You were kind and made him a nice supper and he was vile to you.
You need to see a solicitor about getting a divorce.

He doesn’t need help at all

You buy food and make a decent dinner for all of you. He behaves like you've committed a criminal act and doles out a fine. Hope you got a fair trial first OP!

Wow, how on earth did you get to the point your willing to starve rather than have a disagreement with him.
Tell him you will be putting less away and buying proper food for yourself and your child, order it online, then tell him he can have pasta every night for all you care, but the everytime he eats some of your food he has to pay you a ten pound fine ..

Fucking Ada!! I only read the first page....
Ermmm leave the controlling cunt!.... WTAF?? 🙈

I recognise this obsession with budgets is not normal. In fact, he made me pay a "fine" of £20 into the joint account last night, for the £6 chicken.

This is beyond not normal OP (which I think is pretty much the message others have been giving you). I personally could not live like this.

I know there are a lot of people on here who say "MN is too quick to say LTB", but it's usually not the first post that does it, it's the cumulative effect of all of the OP's posts as gradually more and more of a picture of a weirdly controlling man begins to emerge. Believe me, this man could not be coming across as more weirdly controlling if the picture were blown up to the size of a poster. Initially I thought maybe this would be one of those situations where counselling could help, but that "fine" has tipped the balance for me. OP - he's financially abusing you (hence joint counselling would be an extremely bad idea).

(My 11 year old DS just asked me what I was typing and I told him. He is slack jawed and said "What husband? She should break up!" Even my 11 year old gets it.)

Wow OP... he fined you??
Leave him to his miserable tinned ravioli dinners and I can’t believe he’s happy to feed his kids pasta & ketchup on a self imposed austerity drive.

Have £4000 a month spare?! Oh Lord. We have less than half of that and I thought I was right spending £75 a week on shopping (not including nappies)

If you said caviar and champagne I could maybe see his point but chicken??!! Wtaf? Like many on here have said, this is less about meat and more about his rules and control over both you and your money. The actual IDEA my husband would tell me what was an unacceptable food purchase, especially when it was chicken is beyond comprehension. I have a friend whose husband does this kind of thing. Excuses/rationale range from needing to save for the future to things not being necessary. They have a massive bank account but she's not allowed near it. If you're not careful you'll end up in your 80's still saving for that future you were never allowed to have!

You sound tired, not shocked at everyone's replies.
You know this is wrong.

He is acting as if he is on the breadline.
Does he think you are poor?

You do need to challenge his assumption that he lays down all the rules. If you want to run your household on rules, they need to be agreed between the adults. It's ridiculous that one adult sees fit to fine another adult for breaking a rule that they don't agree with.

The two of you don't share the same values. He is aggressively pushing his own values while completely ignoring yours. But you may be taking the easy way out by not challenging his behaviour enough, so that he believes that you are happy with this. When he is nasty about other people spending their own money, you should pull him up on it, and tell him that you are sick of his whining.

You can afford to feed your child good quality food, not just the cheapest junk food. You can also afford to pay a cleaner. If he would like to avoid the cost, he should offer to do all the heavy cleaning.

He froze the chicken so you couldn't eat it? How can you not see this is way way unacceptable and friggen odd.

How did he "make" you pay the fine?

Part of me thinks you might be ok with this shit, you do come across as materialistic, no one needs to know how much your house is worth.

Either this isn't real, or the pair of you are perfectly willing to bring your child in this odd environment.

I find this thread hard to believe as genuine.,
You have paid off a £250k mortgage in 6 years?
Your DH has 3 siblings who are all married to millionaires?
He is tight enough to spend £40 a week on groceries for 3 to include nappies?
You are not allowed to buy food during the week, had no vegetables in the house except for tomatoes yesterday, but tonight made a vegetable stir fry?
I think this thread is a fabrication but feel very sorry for you if it’s not.

hungryfordinner. Please take this in, you are with an abuser. It is very hard to believe because it seems impossible while you are keeping going from one moment to the next. He is making money out of you actually. He is not a good man. He does not listen when you tell him things.

Therefore you do not confront him. You do not take him on about all these things. He won't be reasonable and he will upset you. You could try saying £40 is not enough for food. If you do this just keep your voice calm, do not negotiate, do not answer his questions, simply repeat "£40 is not enough. We need £60." do not get dragged into an argument or upset by insults. If he is unreasonable you can say "I hear you are not prepared to talk in a reasonable way. I will come back when you are ready to talk properly." Then go away, turn away, Stop talking. Think of him as a spoilt child. Speak calmly. Repeat the same words. As soon as his bullying, unreasonable language or personal insults start, turn away saying the above.

he will not take any notice of anything beyond very simple things.

Just stick to the essentials. Even though you have told him many times to buy more he still buys the same number of tins of cat food however many times you yell him and he still blames you when it runs out. I know this will go on until you leave him!

It all happened to me - over different items maybe. Once he refused to have my sanitary towels in the weekly supermarket shop holding up the packet at the till shouting "I didn't put these in here." I did not have any money then.

I have learned a lot since that happened. It took 40 years of misery before I heard of narcissism but I still hadn't realised that my late husband had a form of it. Yours has. But whatever you call it he is an abuser. You told him about needing more cat food. More than once. He does not take in what you say. He just discounts your words. Then the cat food runs out. Then he blames you. Of course. He's perfect!
No he is not! He is a bully, an abuser.
So now you have to teach him how to treat you as if he is a very badly behaved schoolboy. He does not shout at you any more. He does not call you rude names. He does not lie and blame you when he knows you told him what was needed. He shows you respect and he speaks to you with respect. If he breaks the rules about treating you with respect, you break off the conversation telling him you can see he is not prepared to speak properly at this time. You will wait until he is ready to speak politely/not lie/not blame you when he was told to buy enough cat food..

I am very concerned about that £4,000 in the joint account you are contributing to every month. It's time for you to draw half of the joint account into your account now and to stop paying all you pay at the moment into the joint account. If he only lets you eat part of the £40 a week, you could say you will pay £20 which is your share of food plus your share of your son's food. You could add another £10 as a contingency fund in case one day the food costs rise.
You have not said how the utilities are paid but I have assumed they are paid out of the joint account. Therefore you will need to go through the direct debits and see what your half of those come to.
It's time for you to do some accounting. It's time for you to start a liberation fund. On your next day off you must look at the finances.
You are with a bad man.
Get your half of the savings paid into your own savings account straight away. It is yours. Don't leave it within his reach one moment longer.
There is more going on behind your back than he wants you to know. I do not mean he has a girlfriend on the side. I mean that he is not normal in a dangerous, manipulative exploitative way. I am sure he feels entitled to do whatever he wants and to make you do it too. I know he has no empathy for you. He takes you completely for granted and controls you as if you are a machine. Emotional abuse, shaming you, making you cry, not letting you decide what to cook to eat, it is all abuse and more abuse...

You do not need to square up for confrontation. It is far better on the most important matters not to discuss them with him at all. You are not dealing with a decent logic; man who wants the best for you and his child. You will get nowhere by trying to talk to him. All that will happen is that you will be upset and feel even more helpless. Keep off the big subjects. Cat food, yes, Tell him as if he is 8 yrs old that he does not listen and if it runs out he will have to go and buy more. From his own £500 as a "fine" for not listening. Why on earth doesn't he just buy a whole lot at once? I have my dogs' food delivered in bulk. It saves bringing it home and it's cheaper that way. I never run out (fingers crossed).

You don't have to sit him down and talk. He will manipulate you and trick you and will even lie to you. Start watching Stepahnie Lyn about setting Boundaries and "Why did I attract a Narcissist?" but don't tell him you are working on your plan to save your life and break out for your freedom.
One last question: Does he support you in any way now? If you came home from work tired and had been put upon by someone at work then the boss blamed you for something someone else did... Would he be kind, understanding, comforting, build you up , tell you you are a good person, make the meal for you..? In other words, can you rely on him to be emotionally there for you? Or if something good happens - your boss tells you how well you've done, gives you a bonus: will he be happy for you, proud of you? Take you out to celebrate?

Does he take any notice of you? He doesn't listen about cat food....

I fully expect that this is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of his behaviour.

My ExH would make me do similar things. And when I say "made me", it really was like that. I was so under his thumb that I knew very well the consequences of not doing it. So I did anything for peace, to avoid the silent stares, the clenched fists (he never hit me though). I would often be abused later at another time for no apparent reason - but I would know it was about the supermarket shopping, the leaving my phone at home or undermining him in some other way.

I guess what I am saying is that your husband is likely to have very deep seated ideas about what you can and cannot do. So far, you've mostly stuck to the rules. But wait until you break one of them... You've already discovered his "fining" system. What if you throw away edible food? Turn the heating on when you're not home? Buy new clothes for your child? What will be the fine for that?

Have a read of the parent/child relationship dynamic. He is the critical parent - treating you like a child who doesn't understand the rules and needs to be taught.

I'm afraid this will only get worse...

When was the last time you made a decision about your life that you didn't run past him first?

How many times has he talked you out of things you want to do and made you feel silly for wanting them?

Do you now feel anxious about shopping, cooking, eating, doing things the "right" way... your life is already under his control.

I ended up with severe anxiety and an inability to make any choices on my own... even deciding what to wear became a nightmare.

And then he started on the children...

People who doubt the veracity of the thread should report it.

That’s dreadful. £40 ???. Sorry, but I and my husband and babycant manage on that. That’s £5.71 per day. You need to talk to your husband, or go to couples counselling.....he can’t treat you like this. 😞😞😞😞.

I spend £40 a week on just MYSELF for food shopping (includes a mid week top up of milk/fruit usually), and I certainly don't have the extra money you have. There's no point living frugally if you can stretch a little and enjoy shopping in Sainsbury's/adding extra nice food every once in a while.

I thought it was hilarious that he meekly came back and said it was because of the carbon footprint