That we can afford the chicken!?

[hungryfordinner]

So I've had an argument with my husband and really need some independent perspective.

We are a family of three - me, husband and toddler

• we own our house outright (paid off last summer)!
• we both earn good salaries- after childcare we have about £5k per month to go towards living and saving. We each get £500 to cover tube transport / mobile / personal expenses, so £4000 is free. We are saving for an overseas home and our child's future. There is plenty in savings if we need it.

And yet- today I realised we had no meat in the fridge aside from some sausages, no vegetables apart from tomatoes; and we only get groceries on a Sunday. Not fancying sausages, I bought some chicken breasts in Sainsbury's for £6, and came home and made dinner for the three of us, using the tomatoes and pasta we already had.

I thought that my husband would be pleased I had dinner ready (Wednesday is my day off; he has Fridays off and never has dinner ready for me when I get home).

Well, he has come home and kicked off big time about me buying the chicken. Apparently we need to make what's in the fridge last a whole week, even if it means pesto pasta or tinned meals. And we shouldn't be eating so much meat.

We spend max £40 on food / nappies (his rule) per week and honestly it's driving me crazy. Yes- some people do this and manage fine. I get this. It's not impossible but it's not fun.

But AIBU to think that since we are in such a fortunate financial position, we can splash out on a bit of mid-week chicken? Why the need to control our existence in such a shitty way?

Wait - while I'm at it- a cleaner. I always said to him I want a cleaner when I am back at work. Our time together is too valuable to waste time cleaning. But nope. Instead I spent at least an hour of my day off cleaning skid marks that his disgusting mate had left in our family bathroom last night, scrubbing the rest of that bathroom down, vacuuming and mopping the ground floor, and doing laundry.

All while trying to entertain a toddler or get him to nap (bloody hard work).

On Saturdays we both do a full clean of the house, either while the child sleeps or if he won't sleep,!we take turns cleaning / entertaining child.

I'm sick of living such a miserly existence when we can well and truly afford to live a little!

So why the fuck do you accept this shit? Does he have a 9 inch penis?

If he did that would be another reason to leave... a stingy bastard who’s too big for sex to be enjoyable!

Are we married to the same person? My husbands favourite line is we can’t afford that 🙄 it drives me up the wall because what’s the point in having money saved if you don’t enjoy your self and live a little whilst you’re young!

A bit of a boast I think.
I know many people with huge disposable incomes, more than op and many are the tightest arseholes I know! They don’t even put into collections and scrimp and save. For what!? To boast about how much miserly money they hint at having. It’s pathetic and I and others try to steer clear- not always easy on the school run tho

He sounds awful OP!!! I can't imagine being with someone like that who is controlling to such a degree. Why on earth should yo show him the shopping list to edit before you buy anything, I would ask my partner if there's anything he'd want to add to it and vice versa. Why can't you get a cleaner if you earn so much? Why the hell would he 'fine' you for buying food for your family???!???!!

You said he's good a saving and you aren't, that doesn't mean he gets to control any part of your life. My partner is great at saving and has huge savings in the bank, I'm crap and have bugger all in savings, but we earn the same, we split all the bills, mortgage and food costs etc and I'm free to fritter away as much of my money as I fancy while he squirrels his away as that's what we want to do? If I told him I wanted to get a cleaner, he'd either happily pay half, or if he didn't want one I'd pay for it myself.

Please please understand that what he's doing isn't ok xxxxx

OP please say that you have full access to all your accounts and savings accounts and that you have your own account that he can't access?

If that is the case, please transfer your £20 'fine' back into your account and tell him never again will he attempt to fine you for ANYTHING!

He is financially abusive. Is he nasty in other ways too?

Do you really think it’s normal that he can control what you have for lunch when at work? And it sounds like over the years he has told you you are bad with money and you’ve started to believe it. Do you love him?

hungryfordinner. I absolutely agree that when you are living in a situation you can't see the wood for the trees. I lived in one for over 20 years, thinking I was doing the right thing for the children, and couldn't talk to anyone - no mumsnet!
I just can't believe it when you said he made me pay a "fine" of £20 into the joint account last night, for the £6 chicken. You are bang on right: this obsession with budgets is not normal. Your words about his siblings and his jealousy also resonated with me.
This man is a controlling, complaining, cruel, "it's all about me", Covert Narcissist. If you don't understand look up Covert Narcissism - YouTube has some good ones by Stephanie Lyn Coaching e.g.
"What makes the COVERT Narcissist So Dangerous! How to Spot One and Protect Yourself!" It's just a thought. He may have some of these traits. Dr Craig Malkin describes Covert Narcissism and says it's not the diagnosis that matters - we need to notice and not allow the abuse. (but beware of bad YT ones e.g. I don't recommend Richard Grannon)
This guy is abusing you - no one makes his wife pay a £20 fine! He's a bully! He's got nasty cruel ideas about life! You may be so used to how he treats you that you don't recognise abuse. I didn't. I was ready made for an abuser who manipulated and controlled me. My mother was abusive, controlling, manipulative - lying, always the centre of attention.... I learned to keep her happy, to play to her tune. You are playing to his tune.

It's quite a familiar story, sadly. You thought you had done something he would be so pleased about - made a lovely meal. What did he do? He put you down, diminish you, belittled you, chastised you like a Victorian father then punished you in a very demeaning way. Every human being deserves dignity and every husband should respect his wife. He robs you of your dignity. Think for a moment, are you subjected to quite a lot of exposure to insults, condemnation, judgement, ridicule, belittling ….
Does he have any of these traits/do any of these? ;
Have a strong need for control?
Is he impervious/won't receive input from you (or others)?
Does he create a kind of strange sense of reality when he talks sometimes as if he makes it up as he goes along?
Does he put himself in your place and feel what you feel? Does he have empathy? I don't think so or he wouldn't shout at you about the meal.
Here's a few more indicators of these people:
Feeling they are always being treated unfairly
Using long periods of not answering -the 'Silent Treatment' - it's just sending the message that you’re beneath me, I am contemptuous of you.

Have a huge grievance about life - desperately resentful, or lots of grievances - "It's all very well for them...."
Seems to have hated women – ones old enough to be mothers and ‘in charge”
Never shares inner feelings - unable to "open up" but will listen to you opening up and, at a later and different time will use what you confided about a bad time you had and embarrass you or use it against you.
Seems angry or upset but if you enquire if he's ok will rebuff you/ deny it "I'm OK- it's you".
Do you find yourself apologising for him or explaining away his behaviour?
They get agitated and angry when they don’t get what they want. But again they deny they are angry.

Those were just some red flags that you are in a relationship with an abuser whom a lot of people would say is a Covert Narcissist. They don't have to have all the traits, just a few of the abuses are enough to be given the "diagnosis". The true diagnosis can only be given, of course by a Psychiatrist and takes ages with lots of interviews and observations. And they won't cooperate with a doctor anyway (they say they are ok!) But you only need to be aware that you are being abused. The diagnosis doesn't matter, the abusive behaviour does.

I didn't know the behaviour my husband dished out that made me desperately miserable was abuse. I had such low expectations about how I thought I deserved to be treated that I took a lot of abusive language, damaged things, spoiled appointments, deeply embarrassing moments, disappointments etc. Worst of all, I made excuses for him.
Again Stephanie Lyn addresses this when she talks about Boundaries. She explains that you can't have Boundaries until you have standards about how you are to be treated and what you will or won't accept.
You are accepting abuse. Why? Because you are lovely.

But you need to stop him. You deserve now to be treated properly.

Please do not let your son see that women/mothers/wives are subordinates whom men/daddies/husbands treat as stupid servants whom they punish and humiliate.
SO remember to put up your boundaries, don’t participate in his game of ruling over you contemptuously. He's not the boss of you. A marriage today is a respectful and supportive partnership of equals. If you decide what to buy to feed your son and yourself he cannot countermand your decision.
As for fining you! Unbelievable! What a complete AArse HHole!

OP please tell me the house and the savings are in both of your names

SERIOUSLY LTB

He fined you?!?! He's batshit crazy!!

He's not the boss of you. Tell him to fuck off!

I'd be concerned about his behaviour - is he normally very controlling? Best nipped in the bud before you let him start a cycle of emotional abuse. YOU can afford the chicken, btw - nowt to do with him! (Also the cleaner. Are you sure about the holiday home if it means he behaves like a miser?)

Wow, I can't believe how many replies I've had!

I got home tonight to find the four remaining chicken breasts had been frozen together so I couldn't defrost them to make dinner with them. Great! So chicken and vegetables with rice turned into stir fried vegetables with rice. Whatever, my son enjoyed it. I'm yet to eat mine as I've been doing the bedtime routine.

Then my husband discovers we are out of cat food and it's my fault because I didn't tell him this morning - I've told him numerous times we need 3 boxes of cat food per week, but he never listens, so every Thursday we run out and I have to go to the shop (at least the cats don't go hungry)!

For those who asked, we bought our house for £650k six years ago, although we had £400k equity from previous properties (which had benefited from London property rises, as well as our mortgage overpayments on those properties). Mortgage overpayments were made annually using a combination of our savings and also annual bonuses. We paid for some big renovations in cash, else we could have paid off the mortgage earlier. All of this is down to very tight budgeting but of course, a shitload of luck and good circumstances.

I do have my own bank account, but as we only get £500 each, and I need to pay for transport and other life essentials, it doesn't go far to building a nest egg. I usually do have a bit left over each month.

Our savings are in a joint account, thankfully.

Your responses have been very eye opening and I appreciate them all. I do struggle a lot with confrontation (it's something I am working on professionally), and I am going to find having a tough conversation with him hard. I get emotional and start crying when something upsets me, so I need to find my anger and channel some rage.

What would he do if you just transferred 1k from your savings account into your current account?

I don think YABU, I would have done the same thing. It might be worth having a chat with dh, it sounds like money defines happiness for him at any cost (IYSWIM). We have a weekly food budget too, but if my mind/body tells me I want something other than whatś in the fridge then I'll buy it. We have a cleaner and that's because we both work full time and prefer to spend our weekends spending time together as a family and building memories for and with our 7yr old instead of cleaning. Is he as strict with his money as he expects you to be? I work hard and would not appreciate anyone behaving like that, especially not my husband. Good luck.

I agree with him that you shouldn’t be spending £6 a week on chicken when you could be saving it up instead. After all it would only take a few months until had enough to pay someone to bump the twat off

If you struggle to have a tough conversation with him, don't do it yourself, let your divorce lawyer do it for you.

TBH I am wondering if this thread is real because I cannot believe someone would let themselves be treated like this, I mean you actually handed over a £20 fine for chicken that cost £6.00 and now he has frozen the remainder so you cannot eat it, so despite paying well over the cost of the chicken you are now not allowed to eat it until he says so. Then you go off meekly to buy the cat food that he forgot to order. If this is real then for gods sake Op find your backbone and take legal advice or this fucking penny pinching financially abusive life will be yours until you die - is that the life you want for you and your child?

This behaviour is weird OP. He made you pay a fine?! For buying chicken for the family! We have a similar income to you I think. We spend about £120 per week for 4 of us so I can’t comprehend how you only spend £40 including nappies? Or why??! And frequently one of us pops to the shop for milk and spends another £20! We both work full time so I have insisted we get a cleaner. I’m not prepared to spend my weekends cleaning and if I left it to my DH it would never get done. My DH couldn’t give a stuff about the cleaning but appreciates that it matters to me and as he’s not willing to do it then he’s agreed to this as a joint expense. I detest overly frugal living! My PIL switch off all the lights apart from one main light in the room they’re sitting in. Thermostat is set to 17 deg. Coffee is taken out in a flask rather than bought from a cafe. One teabag between two mugs. I’m sure they’re doing a better job in terms of environmental impact than us but I cannot live like this! We are a long way off paying off our mortgage though and a second home is out of the question but I’d rather have quality of life and not be thinking about money all the time. Your DH is obsessive and seems to be unaware that his behaviour is very strange, bordering on financial abuse as you have no say in the family finances. Moreover he checks your spending and fines you?! This really isn’t normal. I hope you can confront him about this or seek support to do so.

So. did he actually eat thsi fucking chicken that has cost you £26 ?

Have these responses put things into perspective for you, OP?

He does sound controlling! As others have said, what gives him the right to decide how much of a joint income you spend?

Perhaps you could suggest a compromise, up the budget slightly to something that is more realistic, but shop in Aldi where you also get more bang for your buck.

As for the cleaning, definitely get a cleaner. If he refuses, then let him do all the cleaning!!

So. did he actually eat thsi fucking chicken that has cost you £26 ?

No he froze it... got to save, save, save! You never know when the rainy day might come!

There are some very strange threads about at the moment.

Stranger than usual I mean.

Perhaps you could suggest a compromise, up the budget slightly to something that is more realistic, but shop in Aldi where you also get more bang for your buck.

Screw that! Getting him to be slightly less stingy isn’t the answer... Either he needs to have a “Damascus” moment or the OP needs to leave.

It’s about the control he has over you ,it’s disgusting