Why are people still deluding themselves about Michael Jackson??

[waxahatchee]

If any grown man I know invited children to sleep in his bed with him there would be absolutely no question about what was going on. I am sure that most people would agree, why are so many people still deluding themselves about this?? Makes me so cross, why do they even play his music on the radio??

Why should a young child see a grown man naked! I had relatives that were, I guess ‘naturists’? I saw my Aunt and her boyfriend naked a lot when I was young. But I absolutely could not describe their genitalia, you’d have to be up close for a long time. Another set of relatives, the whole family were into being naked even when my cousins got older and were adults. But my uncle was never naked in front of me.

Interestingly there was a thread a while back here about what age boys should not change in female changing room and loads of Mums were outraged that most changing spaces in pools etc said no boys over 8, and many Mums took them in anyway. Meaning they all saw plenty of naked women. Any of us who objected to that were told we were prudes and needed to get over our hang ups around nudity.

Google it

JessicaWakefieldSVH Maybe people are convinced now because the victims of his abuse feel able at last to speak out about what happened to them. I don't think it's too hard to keep up really.

It's fascinating that Johnnie Cochran was a lawyer for Jackson. That's the very same Johnnie Cochran who successfully defended OJ Simpson (and surely there isn't a single person left who thinks Simpson wasn't guilty now).

A snippet from the news when Cochran died:

Among those paying tribute to Cochran is Michael Jackson, who Cochran represented in a civil suit which ended with an undisclosed settlement after a teenage boy claimed the singer molested him.

"Johnnie Cochran was a true gentleman who embodied class, brilliance, honesty and integrity," Jackson said.

TripTrap

Do you know much about how sexual abusers of children behave

He is a almost text book his grooming was made easier so much easier because he was simply the biggest star in the world people are dazzled by that

Is it not the case that jordy chandler was paid off before MJ had to submit to photographs for court? Isn't the suggestion that MJ paid him off because that evidence was so conclusive?

Oh and anyone who keeps parroting 'they were art books' about images of naked and semi naked children can go fuck themselves frankly. Paedophiles can be artists and paedophiles can appreciate art. It doesn't mean that such images aren't abusive.

Borset those 'art' 'photography' books were complied by paedophiles and used by paedophiles, anybody who thinks otherwise is mimimising abuse. They are another tool for paedophiles.

If he was Joe Bloggs down the road, he would have been in jail years ago.

Well exactly. There is no way in which sexualised images of children can NOT be abusive whether they were shot by recognised artists or not. If they were they were artists who were also paedophiles!

Maybe people are convinced now because the victims of his abuse feel able at last to speak out about what happened to them. I don't think it's too hard to keep up really.

Oh it is hard to keep up with each and every claim actually, there’s lots of gossip that is unsupported. I’m interested in provable facts of each case. This is not the first time victims have spoken out and the 2005 details have clearly been around some time. How could a jury look at all these images we are told about on this thread, a few people even mentioned child porn/abuse images, and the evidence of seeing an erect penis long enough to describe discolouration, and not convict him? It’s mind blowing to me.

Yes the suggestion is MJ paid off Jordy because it was so conclusive. However, you have to ask yourselves how on Earth his parents could accept money for that, without ever thinking to themselves they would be allowing MJ the freedom to abuse others. That isn’t me absolving MJ, but I absolutely find all the parents involved to be utterly reprehensible.

If they were they were artists who were also paedophiles!

Absolutely. Yet there were a LOT of people on a thread recently about Lucian Freuds painting of his daughter naked with her legs open, defending it as ‘art’ ( painting began when she was 17).

It was a good act. We all fell for it.We just put it down to him being weird, childlike. Its because of his childhood we said.

Even LaToya came out and said she couldn´t sit back and not say anything when the allegations first surfaced and nothing happened.

We just want to believe the fairytale. Because we are all good people we can't bring ourselves to believe the idea that people in positions of power, success, aren't nice and deserving.

Bit like Savile. He was weird, oddball. Thats just the way it is, apparently.

R Kelly, I mean theres a few more out there I´m sure who are hiding in plain sight.

But now we know better.

But I´ve watched that documentary and the R Kelly one and there are some really important lessons to be learned and not just about the power of celebrity.

About not just trusting people, understanding that a pedophile grooms not just the child but the family, they make themselves seem nonthreatening, they make the child believe that they are giving them love and it isn't wrong, and they make sure the child thinks something bad will happen to both of them if people find out. It takes time to groom.
And the grooming lasts... there is real conflict for those men who have been abused.

I literally cannot believe some posters are even talking about how children could have accidently seen mj penis!!!!!

The underside of it too.

It's extraordinary.

It's frightening. If my DC said they have seen grandpa or uncles penis and spoke about some random distinct marking I would be investigating and getting authority involved.

There is no reason on this earth why unrelated children should have ever had any sighting at all of Jackson's naked anatomy.

However, you have to ask yourselves how on Earth his parents could accept money for that, without ever thinking to themselves they would be allowing MJ the freedom to abuse others.

Maybe they thought that the payout would be read as an admission of guilt and saw an opportunity to get their child out of a court and media circus that made entertainment of of his trauma on the one hand and called him a liar on the other?

I read that one of the prosecutors of the MJ trial said that if MJ was alive now, he would be found guilty.

I wonder what the original jurors now think. I know the superfan, Paulina Coccoz, up to last year was still saying she would have found him Not Guilty.

Zonen thinks he would have got a conviction. Mesereau did a very good job cross-examining though.
I think it would have been a hung jury.

Coco .. he seemed so vulnerable and damaged from his own childhood, we all felt sorry for him and then he was able too steal And wreck the childhood of ... endless stream of boys.

His father Joseph has a lot to answer for too. I wouldn't be surprised if Joseph hadn't abused Jackson'

Teyem.

For all sorts of reasons

Most people focus on their family.. and let others take care of themselves.

Anyone still defending this disgusting man is doing it because they can't bear to face up to the fact that their idol was a bad person, and they were wrong about him. They would rather sling mud at the victims to deflect from the truth, which is obvious to anyone willing to apply logic and reason to the situation. Their egos are more important than the experience of child abuse victims, they just don't realise it.

It's easy to throw out excuses to refute individual pieces of evidence, but when you look at the full picture it's obvious that Jackson was a child abuser.

JessicaWakefieldSVH I can see exactly why the parents would take compensation rather than put their child through standing in court recounting excruciating details of sexual abuse whilst the biggest media circus the world has ever seen would be reporting every moment. I'm surprised you say we have to ask ourselves that question.

Most people focus on their family.. and let others take care of themselves.

Well, like I say, I can see hey they would do that and I can see how they may have felt that parents of other children circling MJ would see the payout as an admission of guilt and a warning.

I can hold that against them really.

teyem I am not going to excuse any of the parents in this. If you accept money from someone who abused your child, and you give him freedom to carry on abusing, there is absolutely no excuse for it.

As for parents being groomed, I call BS on that too. We are all here outraged at how he could of gotten away when there were all these signs... and yet we think grown adults who are meant to protect their children, are not culpable because they were ‘groomed’? Grooming happens to children. Not adults.

Can't

I'm surprised you say we have to ask ourselves that question.

Really? I’m surprised at the excuses given for negligent and greedy parents.

The reason why it's coming out now is because MJ's victims are adults and able to speak out. Simple as. That and the fact that there are so many survivors of SA who are telling their stories.

Also, it's when you become an adult, and have children of your own (that's how it was for me) that you understand that what you went through was wrong. And that you're not to blame in any way.

Reliving the trauma of SA is about the worst thing any person can face. But once you've done it, you're in a position to get the help that you desperately need.

You don't have to excuse parents at all but it's what they did.

People are selfish... we as a society are slaves too money and this reflects that I'm afraid.

People I find even on small basis constantly put money before the best interests of their child.